Who to ascend next? (plus 4* 4/70 vs 5* 3/70)

General Discussion
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I’ve got a pretty good roster going, quite a few heroes ready to ascend, and the materials to ascend ~7 of them except for NO GLOVES. Sigh. Eventually I’ll find some.

My first ascended rainbow set of heroes: (* = 3* mat ascension target ** = 4* mat ascension target)
Delilah 3/70**, Tiburtus 4/70, Kiril 4/70, Caedmon 4/70, Scarlett 4/51

Ready to go (or close enough):
Wu Kong 3/60*
Okaban 2/60
Sabina 3/60
Alasie 2/60* **
Kadilen 2/60*
Boldtusk 3/60*
Lancelot 3/60

Just starting out, unleveled or in first ascension: Gormek, Gravemaker, Melendor, Jack O’Hare, Sonja, Gretel, Chao, Cyprian, Justice

With examples I’ve played with, a 5* 2/60 seems less powerful than a 4* 3/60 despite what the game tells me about team power.

I’m not so sure about a 5* 3/70 vs. a 4* 4/70. My only real example is Del vs. Kiril, and I think Del is a touch stronger.

I don’t have 4* mats yet for any final ascensions; I do have 5 tabards, 4 darts, and a nicely matched set of 4 damascus blades and tomes. 2 rings, tonics, and scopes.

So any 5* hero I take to 3/70 is likely to sit there quite a while. I’ve heard the advice not to do this repeated many times.

Given a choice between a good 4* and a good 5*, I’d do the 4* first if other things were equal, but they often aren’t.

I ascended Del first because I had no yellow 4*s at the time, and I have no regrets. I’m doing Wu next. That none of the other yellows are close to ready makes it easier, especially 'cuz Wu is too squishy for titans where I need him. When I get darts, I’ll take Del to 80 too.

Gravemaker isn’t close to ready, and my first impressions are that he may be really powerful when maxed to 4/80, I’m not sure how great he will be at 3/70. I’m planning to do first Boldtusk, then Gormek, and probably Lance next. At this point, I’ll save Gravemaker for much later.

Kadilen is growing on me quite a bit. Melendor is good, but I’ve got a lot of healers, and he’s not started yet. I leveled Jack 'cuz I hadn’t pulled Melendor yet mostly. Even though I’ve got no idea if I’ll really take Kadilen to 80, (Especially if I get lucky and get Gregorion next month!) and won’t have mats to do it for a long time, I’m still thinking of ascending her to 70, and of my current lineup, probably Melendor next. Jack may just sit at 3/60 instead of rating ascension materials.

I’m really liking Alasie. Especially since she’s ready now, I’d take her to 3/70, knowing I won’t have enough scopes for quite a while, but I’ll give them to her when I get them. If Sonja was already at 3/60, I might ascend her first just because it will be cheaper than Alasie, but I certainly don’t plan to make her wait while Sonja isn’t ready yet. (Assuming I already know what Sonja will be like having played Caedmon)

Okaban vs. Sabina is an interesting question. Both are ready, both are good and useful. There are purple 5*s I want more than Okaban, and if I pull one (Hello, Guardian Panther), I might leave him at 3/70 for quite a while. I’d be happy ascending them both to 70, no matter which I do first.

Am I wrong in thinking that the relative strength of a 5* 3/70 vs. a 4* 4/70 is close enough to let their relative merits and how they fit into my roster drive the decision?

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No, I think you are approaching this the right way. I am at a similar point in the game as I am short 4* ascension mats so I am holding my 5s and am busy (almost finished) leveling my 2nd rainbow set of 4s. I agree that the ‘power’ ratings are not the end all, be all to a heroes strength. Considering the time difference in leveling a 4* vs a 5*, I’ll have plenty of time to level my 5*s as I wait for ascension mats…I would rather use my trap tools now (for Tibs) as I wait on tabards (and more trap tools) for Sartana. But looking at how they fit your team for maximum symbiosis with your other heroes is definitely the way to go, imho… Have a swell day/night!!

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I have been tracking the number of ascension materials (AM) I get for the last 42 days and it seems that Titans give out the most number of AMs.

You have a lot of heroes to work on so you need the AM as soon as possible. I would advise you to work on your titan teams which means 4’s will have to be your priority as they are cheaper and faster to level up. Jack is also good against titans with his high attack stat. You are on the right track.

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Wu may seem squishy, but that and misses are what you live with because he is necessary.

Obakan, Alasie, Melendor and Gravemaker.

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@Mananabas, yes, building up a better titan team for any color is top priority to me right now, especially key 4* titan killing roles like Wu, Tibs, Gormek, Kiril, BT… Fortunately this strategy is helping me with raids, quests, wars, etc. too.

And yes, I’m doing what I can to get AM’s. Honestly I think I’m doing well, except that the RNG gods refuse to give me gloves! I’m in a good alliance, killing 8* titans and usually getting tier IX titan loot. I’m also accelerating monster chests to get more elemental chests.

@Bud, yes, Wu is squishy. That’s why he is a priority to ascend. He’ll still be squishy, but not quite as bad.

Why Gravemaker? I’m thinking that my next 8 blades would be better used taking two out of BT, Gormek, and Lance to 4/70 instead of taking Gravemaker to 3/70.

Gravemaker seems to me like a rockstar in a late game team at 4/80 but mediocre mid-game at 3/70. I don’t have rings, and my 4* reds will be great mid-game, and farther.

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To quote Revelate, Gormek is a “wet noodle”. BT is a good 4, but any chance of getting G Falcon is worth putting off the tusk. Don’t have Lancelot, so no comment.

Since you have Tibs, no need for Gormek. Matching Scarlett with a growing Gravemaker is a pair of strong hitters who will be charged for a second hit when Tibs’ defense debuff helps double their damage.

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You raise a lot of topics, @BarryWuzHere. Let me try to unpack some of the themes.

5* and 4*

As a general rule a 4* at 4/70 is more effective than a 5* at 3/70, but uses the same rare mats and far less food and feeders. There are exceptions to that generalization, though. Heroes whose primary benefit is the special effects – like healing – are solid at 3/70. Exceptionally good heroes like Alasie are also worthwhile at 3/70. Obakan and Kadilen fit into neither category, so I’d defer on them.

Looking at your 4* color items, you can apply a rule-of-thumb that you’ll get three 3* mats for each 4* mat. For example, you’ll likely get three trap tools for each tabard, three hidden blades for each ring, etc. How to use this info? You need 4 more rings for Gravemaker, and you’ll likely get 4*3=12 more hidden blades by then. You’ll need 8 of those for Gravemaker, so you can spend whatever blades you have plus four more without much risk that you’ll be short of blades for GM.

Same-color training

I’ve written this many times before, but when you are building out your team and have many projects in front of you, train exclusively matched-color. Not only does this double the odds of raising the special skill, but it gives a 20% premium on experience. Any one hero will ascend more slowly following this discipline, but your whole team will rise faster. Always have a project in each color.

Yellow choices

Wu Kong makes a dramatic difference on your titan scores, and getting high-tier (IX or above) titan loot is how you get the stream of rare mats flowing. Wu should get your next set of orbs and first gloves.

Red choices

Finish up Scarlett, then work on Boldtusk. Boldtusk is very useful in all sorts of situations. I’d give him the first set of hidden blades and the second gloves. Lancelot is a glass cannon–hits hard, dies fast–and his attack buff collides with Boldtusk’s. Gormek is the opposite, but his armor debuff skill is so valuable, I’d bring him up before Lancelot to use against purple and green titans.

Gravemaker is a top-shelf hero that you will want on your team. Keep an eye on your ring count, and when you’ve got four, shift over to raising him up to 3/70 to be ready to push him on once you get ring #6. The other thing to work on for Gravemaker is getting and leveling a 4* red mana troop. At level 11, that troop will power up GM with only six red tiles (or just three ghosted), which happens WAY more often than 7 (okay, 6.5) tiles.

Blue choices

Alasie is a really solid hero and should get your first set of scopes. Trouble is, you’re a long way from getting those. Nonetheless, I would raise her to 3/70 as your blue project (giving her your third glove), followed by Sonya. It would be really great if you could land a Grimm.

Purple choices

I am not a fan of Obakan; I think he’s the weakest of the standard-issue 5* heroes. I’d bring up Cyprian while you wait for gloves #4 for Sabina. I’d hold those tabards until you get a 5* that is worthy of them, ideally Sartana or Panther, but even Quintus or Domitia.

Green choices

Unless you love playing the challenge events, I’d put Jack O’Hare on hold in favor of Melendor. More healers is always better for Alliance Wars. Kadilen is not a bad 5*; when you get a couple more tonics, reassess. I would ascend next month’s HotM, Gregorion, before Kadilen.

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Thanks for the great detail and answers, Kerridoc!

(Yes, I feed on-color. I also try to have a low-level hero working on specials getting the 1*s and a higher level one getting the 2*s when it makes sense with my roster)

Ooooh, that is just what I needed to hear! Yes, I know that the RNG gods can mess with me, but you still play the odds, and now I know what they are!

Red choices…
I kinda feel that BT, Lance, and Gor are all worth giving my blades too…and I’m feeling like I could make a decent case for doing any of them first.

Gor as a pulverizer triplet of a different color from Tibs (Yup, would love to pull Grimm. Someday.)
Lance as a hitter with the BT’s attack boost (for three, but I can put him in the middle of three reds and get a lot of mileage out of it) given that my roster is healer heavy already. (What if he’s next to Gravemaker and gives Gravemaker the +24% mana boost? I do have a 4* red mana troop, but it will be quite a while before I get it up to 11.
BT, is great, as you said…

Greens…I’ve got Jack moving along in his second ascension…I’ll probably take him to 3/60 and leave him there, then start Melendor. (I’ve also just pulled Skittles who is gathering dust) I agree with you that Mel will get shields ahead of Jack, 'tho.

And yes, I’m totally hoping for Gregorion!

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Short answers, long story short… Max Wu asap and learn how to use him. He’s one of the most important figures in this game for a reason, even with miss factor…

Since you now have a few offensive heroes, I would focus my attention to healers next (after Wu). Sabina and BT are must haves (err 50/50 on Sabina, lol) and very valuable for wars. No one wants to work on healers until they wish they had them. Also, having multiple healers at your disposal provides you with more flexibility over what offensive teams you can put together as you may or may not want to stack same color attacker/healer.

I wold take Alasie as far as I could if I were you as she can cause the most damage, her mana restriction is nothing to write home about. Then I would consider maxing Lance over Oba. Lance provides decent tile damage as well as an offense buff on surrounding allies, but he’s a glass, which may not be a huge negative factor at your level. You may not have much need for Lance as you reach new heights but he’ll still server a valuable purpose during war when he’s all you have.

I’ve never been a fan of Kad or her special from an offensive perspective, imho. She’s just ok as part of a defense, IF you don’t have anything better to ascend…

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I have lance at 70 and if I had to do it over, I’d NOT ascend him and do Gormek instead. Having on-color pulverizer for green titans would be so much better and mixing gormek falcon and scarlet in events, way better than lance. I never use him other than as a 70 throw-in for AW.

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There has been alot of common wisdom doled out here and fortunately a bit of it is still useful.

BWH, Wu is everything they say and should be a focus. He is not a project but the project.

Looking at your roster, it looks like you are that “efficient spender”, and as such plan the move after Wu based on what might come from your next pull. Look forward to the coming event (you should have finished Morlovia by now) and make a case for the hero you want and for which hero moves up if all you summon are es.

The red situation is do not put a wet noodle tank between glass cannons. Gormek is behind Tibertus, and Grimm if he falls. Also, doubling each color before tripling one is wisdom.

BT is good, but using ham, recruits and available mat on Gravemaker is more sound. The hope of a Guardian Falcon dropping is better than BT now.

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Same. Really considering feeding my second to anyone else. What a (almost) waste of resources…

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totally disagree. BT at 70 is way better than Gravemaker at 70. BT will see use even after you have a bunch of 80s. He is one of the best 4-star heroes you will ever invest in.

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Theoretical question:
What if someone like me who doesn’t have both (BT Falcon) pulls both next month which should I prioritzie?

I got Kiril at 70 pulled Gravemaker today and will level him since I got 9 Blades 6 Rings(but nearly no other 4* mats, RNG at its finest :joy:)
Got all three pulverizer this weekend and had none will level Grimm first.
Got Scarlett at 70 and Lance at 3/53 ( he won’t get any blades thanks to your advice :slight_smile:)

I tend to finish Grave->Falcon->BT but would really like to hear the opinion of some players with more experience

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And BT is in which situation for OP?

BWH has one rainbow team and should look to double each color. Tusk at his current level is fine. Just as he is fine at 60 for everyone.

Gravemaker makes it in to the teams on the top 100…bt?

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I pulled two Falcons in the last Guardians event. A nasty sibling rivalry ended badly. The survivor took some time to max as Khagan (now 2^60) was ahead of him.

This month I got Gravemaker in the Grimmwood event. Forgetting I was a blade short from ascending GF, I began levelling G-maker. Yippee!!

Since he went past 4^40, my cup level is up from high 1700 to mid 2100. Grimm G-maker Wu GF Rigard/Sabina/Melendor tearing it up.

YMMV but the two pointy faced red guys are hot.

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He only has 2 rings. BT at 70 is better than Gravemaker at 70. By the time he gets 4 more rings, he will probably get 12 more hidden blades. In his scenario, building out his 2nd team of 70s, BT will be clutch, gravemaker at 3/70 will be weaker than almost any of the rest.

BT at 70 is one of the best 4 star heroes. He will use BT on every non-blue titan team, raids, events, etc. +48% attack plus a heal is huge. The only reason BT wasn’t seen in this month’s event is because it was red reflect. I’ve seen most of the top 10 event people’s stage teams and BT is commonly used. He’s amazing.

Being a DOT hero, gravemaker’s special is severely limited, even if his special gets to 8/8, because the DOT scales with level and missing the final 80 levels knocks his DOT down a ton.

That’s why he should ascend BT first before gravemaker and why most of the top people continue to use BT (unless they have Ares, which he does not).

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Excellent post for your question. Obviously you are rainbow leveling given the number of heroes you have at “the wall.” (Where you can’t level further due to an absence of Ascension materials).

Kerridoc answered everything very well for the most part with detailed rationale, but I just want to comment about efficiency. This game has different aspects that appeal to different players, but I think your priority is building up your team for the future asap. I was the same when I started.

Your priority should be Titan damage. Raiding is fun but gives little reward. Same for wars.

Wu Kong is the king of Titan damage. So much so, that I would actually recommend rainbow feeding him once you get the Ascension materials.

After that, you want to put two heroes that have color strength against the Titan in the attack (ultimately you will want 4 + Wu Kong).

So start with rainbow feed: Gretel, Scarlett, melendor, Sonya and cyp. Ascend Grimm before alasie if you get him. Otherwise boldtusk, Sabina are priority upgrades after Wu Kong.

Obakan, kadilen and Lancelot stay where they are for the foreseeable future. Gormek after boldtusk.

Regarding grave maker: he’s a raid hero. You don’t worry about them yet. If you get Guinevere, same thing. She waits until you build up more. Getting higher scores on Titans gives you Ascension materials. Having 2400 cups really does not.

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Kiril is already maxed. He is weak to green while BT is strong to green. For the green titan he expends how much?

Since BWH said he has no gloves, I guess this is a situation that will change. My opinion, though, won’t.

I have BT, Nat, Khagan, Azlar, Colen, Gormek, Scarlett all at their respective 60s; however, none contributed to my raids like G-maker. Paired with G Falcon, my trophy count went from below 1800 to 2100+ in less than a week. And the G man is still below 4^60.

Success speaks volumes.

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Can you guys help me decide who to ascend First? I have Captain kestrel from the pirate Event and now i got gravemaker (got him twice while i was actually aiming for rumpelstiltchen