Not sure where you’re finding these people running defensive Marge, which is objectively bad, but even then why are you sniping at Marge with her skill up?
- She does show up sometimes in the range I’m in, roughly 2300-2500.
- Using AoE you don’t have a choice of targets, and using splash it is limited.
- Sometimes I am hoping it doesn’t kick in so I can knock out weakest opponent, often the one beside her.
I do not regret ascending thoth at all, but only because i have panther and they charge at the same time. Aeron also has done yeomans’ work.
We’re talking in generalities, and we’ll never agree as long as it’s just generalities. So let me bring it down to specifics to see if I can make my case more believable to you (and I know I have a mountain to climb, because she’s not helping your roster).
Suppose you have the two 3-matches necessary to activate Margaret with a level 11 mana troop. On a tough board, these might take a while to get. So your team is probably beaten up a bit, and the enemy is going to be ready to fire in short order by the time Margaret goes hot.
At 6 tiles:
If a Margaret-protected Zeline with a level 1 mana troop gets snipe-missed, she will be able to fire on her turn. Her dispel and attack debuff, along with some damage, will radically transform the next several turns of the fight.
If a Margaret-protected Lianna with a level 1 mana troop gets snipe-missed, she will be able to fire on her turn. Her shot can take down whoever those 6 tiles damaged.
If a Margaret-protected Hansel with a level 1 mana troop gets snipe-missed, he will be able to fire on his turn. His attack creates a safe tile dump point in the defense, and robs a defender who is hot or almost hot of their special.
If a Margaret-protected Kingston (upcoming) with a level 1 mana troop gets snipe-missed, he will be able to fire on his turn. His shot can take down whoever those 6 tiles damaged, and produce an attack debuff on the adjacent heroes that will go up as tiles get cleared into them.
From a support perspective, a snipe-missed Evelyn with a mana troop is more of an evolutionary lift than a fight transformer. Her heal will help mitigate the slashes being absorbed, and she can create soft points for tiles to hit. But (as you are no doubt aware) it is very nice to have but not a winner all by itself. You need a little luck in addition.
The case for average and slow heroes is more complex, but she converts slow heroes with mana troops who dodge into 9 tile activations. Getting MoNo or Alby activated one match earlier is huge in a bad fight.
And this is just the Greens. If Margaret is used as part of the off-color 2 in a 3-2 pairing, she converts a any two fast flanks who have mana troops into 6 tile activations given a dodge. Being able to get your favorite weapon hot in 2 matches instead of 3 is really big on a bad board.
So What? Wouldn’t you be better off to add in an extra Zeline or Lianna or Kingston or Hansel?
On a good board, who cares? Margaret is tile damage, plain and simple. You’ll get the tank kill via tiles, then take the enemy apart. Even very pedestrian teams win these fights.
If you can reliably get fast heroes hot, then bringing an extra fast hero with a good effect will probably beat Margaret. In this case, you’re paying a penalty for your insurance policy.
So the question is: can good tile damage, combined with the specials of the four other heroes you brought, do enough to win the fight? Margaret isn’t a complete zero. She still protects heros from snipes and manas them up.
But this is where your “just bring another hero” analysis makes a very strong case. If I have two Zelines ready to fire, or two Hansels, who cares if you snipe one?
If those four heros are strong enough, then the penalty you pay for your insurance policy is just fine. If those heroes are iffy, you’ll really be wanting that 5th slot for someone else.
Bad boards where you can scrounge 6 tiles
This is where Margaret shines. She can reverse a fight by turning a probable snipe kill into a return activation by the hero who got sniped. Having Zeline dispel and debuff you instead of killing her is a massive reversal in a fight.
Bad boards where you can’t scrounge 6 tiles
You’ve lost anyway.
If your roster is good enough, Margaret buys you wins on boards with just two 3-matches without costing you wins on better boards.
If your roster is thin but has a couple of superstars, Margaret buys you wins on bad boards but costs you wins on average boards. And you lose roster flexibility. So she seems not that helpful.
If your roster is marginal, Margaret will win you relatively few bad boards while costing you otherwise-winable average boards. This is a subtle version of “Aegir kills his flanks.” Jacking Margaret into a lineup instead of a more direct hero costs win paths instead of adding them.
I just found the perfect Bulls player to describe Margaret and he is Steve Kerr.
Highly situational and a wonderful specialist at that.
Nice come back! I liked his waterboy theory but you grabbed the rebound with Rodman example.
You have him thinking now… Steve Kerr example is a redemption… or a Margaret dodge to keep the fight going.
Well too many players here compare heroes based on their solo performance.
They do forget a team is made out of 5 heroes and how well a team syncs is more important.
This is something I can never emphasize enough. Many just imagine putting 5x grade A heroes together and they will do well. At least those are newer players IMO.
I don’t use rainbow defense and usually only 3-4 colors and it served me well.
Try flanking Ares tank with Margaret. If Ares does not die, the attacker will usually suffer.
Agree… also many ppl just look at the heroes for cup defense…
Personally i look at them more for the titans… so thoose i like may not be so good for others…
I love elemental debuffers … how can anyone dont love guardian Chakal? Yet i havent seen any on top 100 defense
Kunchen: Best HOTM (in my opinion). Very good tank. Slow but excellent healer. I’m glad I have him. He’s a gamechanger for f2p and he’s scary when he’s surrounded by other great HOTMs in defense.
I take him everywhere. I can take him to a raid along with other four 4* heroes and he can change the course of a battle once he charges his special. He has helped me win unwinnable raids against the likes of GM and Hel. He’s usually the last man standing in most battles.
That’s my standard for a good HOTM. Can a HOTM help f2p win battles when they’re in a team full of vanilla 4*? Kunchen certainly can. I stay in diamond arena with no problem.
Frida is also great, mostly in offense. Elemental debuffers are great. Anzogh is not that great when surrounded by 4* but he’s definitely not the worst HOTM.
I don’t have Margaret but looking at her stats and her passive special makes me think she’d be bad in offense in a team full of 4*. Her health and defense is too low. I have found a few Margaret in raids. She got killed by tiles. I didn’t even have to fire any specials at her.
I hope devs buff her someday. I really like her hero concept and her art. She just needs a little extra buff to be a great HOTM.
Margaret does work well at times… but I feel she just needs a little extra something so she doesn’t feel completely “niche”.
That is right, you Are the only one… Sorry…
Not really because he is great, it is because the lack of 5* healers. he is still underwhelming for a 5* healer.
Delilah, kunchen, alberich are all better than him as healers and they support the whole team as well.
He was my first hotm i think at least his cleanse and protection should be for the whole team instead of nearby.
Yes, but in this case, Ares is the good hero. Margaret might or might not allow him to dodge a special. When comparing heros, you have to take both the individual heros capabilities into consideration as well as the synergy the given hero will give to his/hers team. Ares is a good example of a hero that undisputably brings a lot to the team, while on his own he’s not so cool. Margaret brings in comparison very little to only parts of the team, and gives nothing but high tile damage herself.
Aeron’s heal is a secondary effect. Making 3 immune to special effects is his forte, and that contributes to healing-by-proxy.
Why is it secondary? It is not far off other healing over time numbers, just shorter in duration.
Tarlak’s healing can be called secondary,
Aeron is a pure hero support. Having his supportive buffs to different set of targets is simply bad design.
I have been tracking my hero usage in all raids for the month - 144 raids so far. Here is my usage for each HOTM I have (all are maxed, none have emblems).
Perhaps the most surprising result is how little I’m using Gravemaker. His usage is below Buddy, LI XIU (hilariously sitting just below 30%), Grimm, Proteus, and equal to Tiburtus. Here’s why:
- There aren’t many green tanks, so I rarely use a red 3tack.
- I have Mother North at +6, and her usage is 100%. As a result, I am more likely to attack with a configuration where green is stacked (2 or 3). Incidentally, that likely inflates Evelyn’s usage. That is, her usage would likely be less on another roster.
- That also means I’m frequently fighting blue tanks (certainly not passing on any, I’d say), where a red minor stack is less valuable.
- Mother North’s presence also affects my raid configuration. I go 3/2 about 60% of the time, and 3/1/1 about 40%, which I suspect is higher than most.
- In a 3/1/1 where neither red nor green is the 3tack, Mother North is one of the ones, and the other is usually a support hero. Since I’m not relying on it for primary damage, GM doesn’t often get selected as the second one. I’m very likely to choose Mitsuko (41% usage) in fights where she can single-handedly kill a blue hero (plus her skill complements my yellow 3tack team). Onatel is also a common choice since she survives, self-heals, and can run a raid herself.
He may be bad design, and he may suck, and he may even be worse than all the other 5*s… but a lot of top 100 players and high diamond players use him, so they must all be wrong too. shrug I don’t have him, so, you know, argue with those losers.
Lol, i didn’t criticize players who use him so there no need to shame anyone.
That doesn’t change the fact that he is one of the worst 5* healers currently available and they are very few. I have him maxed and he was my first 5* purple so i say that from experience.
Top100 changes by the minute and definitely he is not even close to the other healers especially kunchen who came nearly one year after him
The only one I have is Khiona lol. She’s decent, but I would argue Sartana is better than her. Khiona does well against titans though, she’s the only purple attack buffer hero aside from Aemonna’s self boost. Even though the attack boost lasts a short time it stacks with Wu Kong or Tarlak. So there’s that, can’t say I’m not happy with her. Defensively the berserk boost does very well against tile damage, the turn duration is not as big of an issue there.