Which are affected more by Emblems, Rare or Legendary Heroes?

Click for TLDR

Because most Talent Nodes are a flat point value (+15, +18, +36), Rare Heroes gain the most stats from Emblems by %. However, a number of factors conspire to make the gap between a Rare at +0 and a Rare at +20 very manageable in practical terms; it’s very feasible to kill a +20 Rare with a 3/50. OTOH, those same factors make the gap between a Legendary +0 and a Legendary +20 almost unbeatably wide. But seriously, read the story, it’s fun.

Indeed, great examples. Let’s go with that!

Ladies and Gentlemen!
I, the Lord of Dust, shall attempt to demonstrate before your very eyes that Emblems matter less to Rare Heroes than to Legendary ones! That, in fact, you may take your untalented Rare Heroes into the Rare Tournament with the expectation that they shall perform well, but that your untalented Legendary Heroes will not have a whelk’s chance in a supernova.

I need two volunteers from the audience, if you please; one Rare, and one Legendary. Step forward, don’t be shy! And you sir, what is your name?

:snake: Ulllmer :snake:

And you are a Rare Hero, and you are unenhanced, having no Troops, no spells cast upon you, and most importantly no Emblems?

:snake: Yesss :snake:

And yourself, young lady, you are?

:snowflake: ISARNIA :snowflake:

And I can see that you most certainly are Legendary, but we shall pass over the issue of enhancement and declare you to have no Emblems?

:unamused: :snowflake: YES :snowflake:

Then, if you shall both step forward to my Magic Mirror, we shall see what may be done. Alakazam! :zap: Observe, Ladies and Gentlemen, that I have created two duplicates of each Hero, both precise copies of the original in all details but one: they have +20 Talents on the Sword Path. We shall henceforth know the originals as Little, one enhanced copy as Big, and the other copy as Defender!

Now then, if you would bring yourselves to the Measure-O-Meter here, we shall see what this has done…
Little Ulmer ATT: 528 Big Ulmer ATT: 654 Gain: 24%
Little Isarnia ATT: 797 Big Isarnia ATT: 933 Gain: 17%
Well, folks, it sure looks like Ulmer is the big winner here! Ulmer, wave that stick of yours around a little, will you? Good to see you are a traditionalist: a Wizard’s staff does have a knob on the end. Give him a big hand folks! :clap: :clap: :clap:

But, now for the magic, Ladies and Gentlemen! Observe, as I invert their very strengths right before your eyes! Little Ulmer, attack your well-endowed Defender self, please? No special Skills, just a tile attack. And immediately afterward, Big Ulmer, do the same? :zap::snowflake:, :zap::snowflake:
L. Ulmer -> FLOOR(33*((528/395)^1.35)) = 38
B. Ulmer -> FLOOR(33*((654/395)^1.35)) = 50
Gain: 32%
Well done, both of you! Isarnias Big and Little, your turn. Attack yourself! :zap::zap::snowflake:, :zap::zap::snowflake:
L. Isarnia -> FLOOR(33*((797 [ATT]/691 [DEF])^1.35)) = 31
B. Isarnia -> FLOOR(33*((933 [ATT]/691 [DEF])^1.35)) = 38
Gain: 22%
Thank you, Isarnias! And look, in line with the common wisdom, again has Big Ulmer gained the most from his Emblems! :clap::clap::clap::clap: How can I possibly make this differential between the Isarnias grow while the gap between the Ulmers shrinks? Impossible, you say?

The astute among you will realize that I have already tipped my hand, and revealed the magic at work. I ask that you do not tell your friends! Allow them to marvel at the outcome.

Now then! Will all the participants step forward and finish off the Defender? Do not worry, they are only illusions, they cannot be truly hurt…:zap::zap::zap::zap::cold_face:
L. Ulmer -> CEILING(769 [HP]/ 38 [DAM])= 25 Tiles
B. Ulmer -> CEILING(769 [HP]/ 50 [DAM]) = 19 Tiles
Gain from Emblems: 6 Tiles
L. Isarnia -> CEILING(1308 [HP]/ 31 [DAM]) = 51 Tiles
B. Isarnia -> CEILING(1308 [HP]/ 38 [DAM]) = 42 Tiles
Gain from Emblems: 9 Tiles
Ladies and Gentlemen, how can this be? Despite Ulmer gaining more ATT and doing more damage, it seems that Isarnia has gained more tiles worth of work by being given Emblems! Three tiles worth of work, to be precise. Further, note that as each successive match is required, the likelihood of getting yet another clean match goes down exponentially; so not needing more matches after getting 42 tiles into someone is a MUCH bigger deal than not needing more after 19.

What’s that Ladies and Gentlemen? Too simple? Too… theoretical? Who attacks with just one Ice Hero anyways? That’s… :scream: Rainbow attacking! Who does that? Well, I assure you folks that there are many rainbow adherents among you now. They are perfectly normal people, neighbours, friends, and family… but suffice it to say, it is not up to me to out them here :rainbow_flag:.

But you are correct, stacking is by far the more common case. To the Magic Mirror! :zap::zap::zap::zap: And I shall require two more volunteers from the audience, Fire Heroes, if you please. Hawkmoon and Khagan, yes. Reasonable tank choices from :fire: in Season 1, and Emblemed on the Path of Shield. Yes, we’re going to kill you, but you’ll be famous so it’s ok. Give them a round of applause, folks! :clap::clap::clap::clap:

All right! In stacks of three, in your own time… FIRE! :zap::snowflake::cold_face:
3 x L.Ulmer -> FLOOR(2*33*((1584 [ATT]/548 [DEF])^1.35)) = 216
CEILING(764 [HP]/ 216 [DAM] = 5 Tiles
3 x B.Ulmer -> FLOOR(2*33*((1962 [ATT]/548 [DEF])^1.35)) = 288
CEILING(764 [HP]/ 288 [DAM] = 4 Tiles
Gain from Emblems: 1 Tile
And:
3 x L.Isarnia -> FLOOR(2*33*((2391 [ATT]/751 [DEF])^1.35)) = 246
CEILING(1645 [HP]/ 246 [DAM] = 9 Tiles
3 x B.Isarnia -> FLOOR(2*33*((2799 [ATT]/751 [DEF])^1.35)) = 304
CEILING(1645 [HP]/ 304 [DAM] = 7 Tiles
Gain from Emblems: 2 Tiles

And there you have it, Ladies and Gentlemen, a typical example. Not only does one need fewer tiles to break a Rare tank than a Legendary one, but the disadvantage from not having Emblems of your own is only a single tile, perhaps two (Note that if you do have Emblems, you might even accomplish the break with a single 5-match!). By contrast, breaking a Legendary tank with a 3-stack not only requires more tiles, but your disadvantage by not having Emblems is typically at least two tiles… and occasionally three, which pushes you into the realm of requiring four 3-matches. Anyone who’s ever done the analysis for gaining that one tile for Average speed Heroes knows what a big deal that extra match is.

THE END

Epilogue
  1. Using mono largely makes the difference between having Emblems or not having them quite small… but only against the targeted Element.
  2. Using attacking skills mitigates this effect, returning the biggest mathematical gains to the Rare Heroes as they are given Emblems. However, at the Rare level the practical effect of this is often just overkill, where the extra damage gained on paper is wasted.
  3. As mentioned above, the biggest factor at play is that Rares tend to lean to the ATT rather than DEF generally, resulting in more real-life tile damage on Heroes with less HP, in turn resulting in faster/luckier kills. This is most true in S1.

Of course, there is no WE or $ cost to enter any Tournament, so why not invest a little time no matter the level? But definitely get into the Rare Tournaments, even if you don’t have much in the way of Emblems… a little luck will go a long way.

15 Likes

I don’t give two rats’ donut holes if anyone agrees, that was fun to write.

2 Likes

You got talent dude! Well done.

1 Like

Good reading… thank you very much!

1 Like

Indeed. Well done, sir.

It were for certain the most entertaining post I had read in some months, well done :slight_smile:

Nicely done…
20 nice nicely niceties

Thank you for sharing your analysis. This goes into my “quality content” threads.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Wow. Best thing on the forum I’ve read. Nice job.

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