When are the players held responsible?

Over the course of the last 6 months there has been a drastic change in the game made by SG from added emblems, to trials to, new heroes , raid tournaments. A steady stream of new content some working well, some needing a little tweaking, but as each of these changes came Into the game, the community began to change also.

Long standing alliances and players have left, returned, and started anew. With the introduction of three items I feel that there has become a very real problem with the game community in general and it is not SG it is the players.

loot tickets- seemed great, especially nice for people like me who work long hours and need to grind materials for my heroes…leads to a most recent post of wanting to be able to have loot tickets for events simply because they dont feel like doing them anymore.

war opt out- asked for and finally received and people still will afk the war causing other players to flame them leading to people leaving/ booted from said alliances when al they had to do was opt out??

emblems- these were the best thing to be added of the new changes in my opinion, yet the competition definitely got ramped super high and without certain heroes beatdowns have become insane especially for the FTP players In diamond.

Raid Tournament- anyone here for the installation of this ongoing travesty I need not even go into that here.

people are hopping from alliance to alliance, some people, which I will never understand, have up to 3 accounts???I mean why? has to be something else to do in a day just saying.

people are literally getting mad at people because they are asking then to use there titan flags and teamwork is almost non existent in some places. people just refuse to talk at all, and miss me with that social anxiety crap, you knew this was a FTP multiplayer game when you joined, you also know that joining an alliance means you have a few things as an alliancemate you are required to do, and being that there are only 2 times in this game (titans and wars) that serious and semi serious teamwork are required for the benefit of all members in the alliance, people are upset because they are expected to actually take their war and titan hits???

This game has been fun for me going on two years, but the last 3 months have been nothing but a headache. with 17 people we took down 8 9 star titans at least 5 of 7 days taking down a 10 here and there, now with 29 people we have only taken down 3 titans all week,and if you ask why people arent attacking , you are told you are being negative and that it’s just a game. yes it is a game but in order for people to get things they need a little bit of communication is required sometimes and I’m over the selfish attitudes that have permeated this game over the past few months.

You people blame SG for everything and call me what you want, the PLAYERS are what is making me dislike this game. this whole lazy I dont are what anyone else gets, i only joined this alliance for free stuff crap needs to be addressed cause im over it. Have been here a while and this is not what fun is anymore, it’s become a task because more and more people simply buy things, especially those new packs with the troops and backpacks, and then complain insistently about not have said items to ascend said hero because said person never participates in anything and blames who, SG.

there needs to be more ways for people to go about getting ascension items even if its weekly quests with multiple objectives, anything would be better than this current gamestate.


Kick those who don’t participate. Not very difficult is it unless they have the same rank as you.
I rarely invite players and still having 30 members. 25 active and 5 semi active.

People who are not active wont even feel it if you kicked them anyway. They are not around to see your kick. :rofl:


Sadly, it sounds like you’ve been in the wrong allinace(s) this entire time :persevere:.

We have those that occasionally miss a titan, can’t use their last flag in war, etc. but everyone’s an adult and explains what happened. We win together and lose together. I couldn’t ask for a better group. Sounds like you need to find something like that. They’re out there, I promise :laughing:


Hi @DoctorStrange, I know we haven’t always agreed about absolutely everything , but I know you care about the game and community and contribute a lot.

Sorry to hear that you are frustrated by some bad attitudes. I’m sure if you wanted a change, you would be swamped with offers.

However it plays out, I hope you find your enjoyment again.


And I also agree that some players have short memories about how much is added, particularly stuff we’ve actually asked for.

Don’t forget

  • activity logs
  • colourblind mode
  • new buildings
  • buffs for classic heroes and Aegir
  • forum interviews with staff
  • counters and alternatives to Guin
  • recruits from raids

And coming soon (hopefully after tweaking)

  • costumes
  • alchemy Lab
  • buffed events with new heroes and family bonus
  • hero academy

U could just join Crew, and eliminate ur alliance woes, poof gone forever lol

But anyways, our big ticket to more mats was the raid tourneys and you can see how that went so now it’s just more waiting until the next gimmick is released and jumpin on it asap before they nerf that too lol

The slacking players, the ranting players, the self victimizing players, etc those have been around since i started playing. Sure absolutely annoying but I’ve kinda gotten used to it on good days. Bad days, yea my tolerance goes down a bit for pity parties and ridiculous demands.

You say you’ve seen an increase in recent months. I feel the most noticeable increase to me was probably with alliance wars. As soon as SG started offering free stuff with every mistake or glitch, the demands for stuff skyrocketed.

Then as the game popularity kept growing and growing, i noticed more and more players don’t want to put the time and effort in for the rewards and benefits anymore. All about skipping farming, skipping titan stars, wanting to do away with event efforts so that everyone gets the same participation trophies, etc.

Night is still young so may retouch on this with further thoughts but i hear ya man, the community is kinda nuts now. It’s all about maximum rewards wirh minimum efforts.


Some really true word @DoctorStrange but also i can say that you are in the wrong alliance.
We kicked players not following simple two rules and now we are nearly constantly full. We got great communication and now going deeper into war tactics. We all still want fun but feel like a family and family stuck together in any occasion. Hope you will find a similar alliance soon.
I am so glad that someone spoke out, what I think all the time. As more SG followed the wishes of the community and implemented new stuff, people seem to get even more greedy and upset. I read so often “Why do I not get any 5 star or HOTM or mats for them???” I still remember how hard is was in past times before Atlantis, war and new challenges to get those things. In my first account I got my first 5 star at a mid 30 level . My second account (yes, I also got one) is at level 32 and got already 5! Only because of Atlantis and the opportunity to get much more epic hero token as before. People complaining at a high class level currently and I would be so glad if they think about first, how it was at the beginning.


I think the company you keep in your alliance, and on the Forum, really affects perception of the player community.

I agree with others above, a change of alliance mates could shift your experience quite a lot. Not all players and alliances are as you’ve described, though certainly plenty are.


Recruiting sucks but having “teammates” who are not team players sucks more. You have to kick and recruit and kick and recruit until you have active team players.

Unused flags are unfair to the rest of the alliance and lose wars/cost other players resources. If you allow that you’ll start losing your active players.

Anybody might mess up occasionally but those with a pattern of not caring must go.

The leader needs to pick coleaders based on who actually leads and works for the alliance. Leadership needs to be around to praise the members. Tell them they made a good kill or almost got that tank bust. And leadership has to make unpopular and unpleasant calls. Thst long time member who has lost interest in thd game has to go for the hood if the alluance.


Sounds like you are frustrated about activity level in your alliance.

In my experience casual players don’t mix well with competitive players. Casual player in a competitive alliance will not understand why the others are hyperactive and upset with him/her and will get frustrated. Competitive player in a casual alliance will not understand why people are not hitting the titan and will get frustrated. There are a thousands shades in between on the casual-competitive scale. The game is more fun if you play it together with people of similar playstyle.

I would recommend you discuss with your alliance leads or members check the long term plans. If the alliance wants to play active, you need to let casual players go. If alliance leadership is not willing to do that, then high activity people will leave and the alliance will become casual.

There are a lot of alliances out there where everyone hits the titan… Hit me up on Line silver_dragon-r if you want.

Good luck!


Of course, I have just a small sample, but in the last months, players joining our alliance always mention that they are glad e are so active, or they are glad we are not making a lot of demands of them about size of titan hits or war. Our alliance, like Sorsha’s, is simple, hit titan 5 times and if opted for war, use flags.no drama if we lose, no drama it titan escapes. Seems there are plenty of alliances out there making the game less enjoyable.


thnx for the positive posts guys and to add a little more information. we were at 17 from 30 regularly active players and a couple players kept asking us to look for a merge missing the full team wars. in my past experience, especially since most of us had been playing a year, it’s very difficult to merge a group of 17 year + players to another alliance. I explained this a few times and 3 players bailed without notice causing a " let’s just try it" attitude about merging. since everyone missed being full we shopped around for a merge.

it was a travesty 2 months and the new leader spoke 3 times in two months, no one would speak to any of our merging players at all and after saying they were super active that was the exact opposite of what we got. everyone agreed to move again and had this really anxious leader who had tons to say about her three alliances. everything sounded good and we moved again, however this time the new leader didn’t give and leader rights to our group until someone made a complaint, all of us hit everything or make sure its known if we are gonna be away maybe 5 players of this group are regularly active, 10 may hit the titan twice if at all meaning we keep missing titans for no reason at all, war participation is just they log in at some point and double triple attack at people, no form of communication at all from all but maybe three of them. my people, 8 of them are real life friends and the others have been with us from day one. My loyalty is unquestionable and I wouldnt leave my main crew for any reason but merging was not the answer. I agree recruiting was rough but this, this has become a bad joke with the worst punchline ever and if you cant even ask a question like why are your guys only hitting the titan once in 24 hours only to get we atte being negative enough has become enough. sorry to vent here but I just didnt know where else to go where people who would understand. thnx for all the positive comments it was really appreciated.


I feel you on the alliance actively. Would be nice to be in one where everyone just participated on titans. Lucky to get 11 people where I’m at. Just waiting to complete war chest then I think I will be looking also. No hate for my alliance I’m just looking for a little more also


As I have said before it is about being prepared to ‘manage’ the alliance. My alliance is very clear about what we expect from people when they join (can’t get much clearer than our Alliance name - ‘All Zeros will be Kicked’). Members know what is expected of them and therefore what they can expect from everybody else. We actively ask people to read and acknowledge the rules when they join so there is no argument. Rules are enforced with no fear or favour (I have even demoted a Co-Leader for not hitting a Titan). Setting expectations, communication and fairness are tools to help manage your team. We fluctuate between 26 - 30 members and regularly kill 9* and win in AW.


@DoctorStrange You are partially right. People are selfish and don`t contribute. But also consider that the game with its stupid randomness encourages this.
Actual example: in the Grimforest weekend I got a lot of mats by finishing the event (not by ranking high up), then got a blue chest during that Sunday which provided some more mats. On top of all, mistic vision granted me a hidden blade during that same Sunday. What followed? A week of absolute nothingness in terms of loot (exception being the day with the farholme quest which provided me the only 2 mats in 7 days. We killed 6 titans of level 9-10 during that week. I had hits from 190k to 70k per titan. I hit every flag i had. We also won the 2 wars during that week. I got no mats, neither from war, nor titan, nor titan chest.
I started recording everything that I get since february.
The stats are like this:
March - 30 Mats (did not have the power to finish Legendary event during that month, so 3 less mats than it could be)
April - 35 Mats
May - 42 Mats (7 extra mats because I finished Atlantis normal)
June - 36 Mats.

So the pattern I see here is that I get roughly 35 mats per month, no matter how I perform. I had plenty of titan total hits of over 150k that returned no mats. I had plenty of titan total hits in the 40-60k that granted me mats.

So the question I start asking myself is why should I bother using expensive battle items, or hit every flag, or do every monster/raid chest as soon as it appears? It will all even out at the end of the month at around 35 mats.

I am highly competitive and my main focus curently is to be as efficient as possible in leveling up heroes, farming, training etc. Because the game is slow enough as it is, I want to waste as little resources as possible. But the conclusion is that it is all for nothing, as I get the same number of mats as 4 months ago, when I had like 2 fully ascended 4* heroes, playing in silver arena, and now I have 16 x 4* and 3 x 5* playing constantly in Diamond.

If effort is not rewarded constantly, why should anyone make that effort?


It depends on the rules you set during recruitment and for members. In our alliance everyone hits the Titan daily, unless pre notified that they are busy/travelling are. Wars of those that opt in its very rare for us to not lose flags. We have some who leave during to busy work,long holidays and stay in contact through Line ap - most return afterwards and we try to save a space if we know highly likely they will return. Anyone who doesn’t hit Titans or doesn’t use flags without notice) has one warning, then if repeat is removed.

Usually someone on most of the day (cover Australia, USA, Europe) and most ate chatty (only 2 not and they play well).

War post plan after it starts, when know opponent defenses - all follow plan.

It’s just about setting expectations (I know it’s only a game) and fast kicking those that don’t


All reasons why I created my own private alliance and don’t accept randoms. Chat toxicity, lack of communication and participation, all issues I really don’t want to deal with as a leader. If it means I have a smaller alliance with lower level players that can’t take on high level titans, that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make in order to keep the game enjoyable for me. I know my members, I know their strengths and weaknesses, I know they wouldn’t miss a war or a titan without a good reason, and if they had a reason, they would let me know and opt out ahead of time. We don’t have any infighting or communication issues, I trust my team and we all know the expectations and we work well together.

I was in a larger alliance before, with active recruiting, and as nice as it was to meet new people and have a full roster, we regularly had members who missed titans and didn’t use war flags (even though they had logged on at the time and had no valid excuses), we had members get into arguments with each other, insults, harassment, name calling, controversial language and conversation topics, members who didn’t talk at all, members who put up really bad war defense teams and made poor choices when using war attacks (either using a 3500 team to take out a 1500, or trying to take on a 3500 with their 1500 when there was a 1500 defense team on the board, etc.). It was freaking chaos. Even with 4 or 5 co-leaders, each one online at a different time and none of them agreeing on strategy, sending out mixed messages to a team made up of newbies who didn’t know what the heck was going on, regulars who never read chat anyway, other regulars who liked to ignore the rules and expectations just for the sake of being rebellious, or whatever…

The reality is that all multiplayer games suffer from these issues, because people in general are selfish and unpredictable. The internet had the potential to make the world a better place, until humans started using it and screwed it all up. :laughing: Long story short, I only trust the people that I know I can trust, and I’m not willing to risk the success and integrity of my small, private, well-coordinated alliance by admitting random members who could easily **** it all up for the rest of us.


I do agree with this. I think if I stay off the forums for over a week and the game RNG gets the better of me , I’ll leave this game in a heartbeat.

I feel that way at times when 4k TPwas the pinnacle and I could have mustered wins with 3700 TP, now with emblems on top tier heroes and facing heroes up to 4.3k in diamond it’s gotten more challenging but I still manage to remain in low diamond and if I fall out… revenge wins seems to help.

All I’m saying @DoctorStrange , don’t discourage. Let the guys in your alliance know how you feel .
Or use that fancy eye of agamotto :eye: you have and go back in time and make changes to make you happy.

While you are doing that , save Tony Stark too :relieved:


I’m going to assume that comment is directed at me for my comment in this thread (posted here: Challenge event pointless ) and that I am therefore one of the players apparently ruining the game.

If that was your take-away from my post then you clearly misinterpreted it. My point was that I wanted to see challenge events improved as they are currently boring and despite the name are not challenging. I proposed an idea to try improve it (as frankly just adding heroes doesn’t change it at all) to give a potential solution rather than just complain (I’m a software developer so I always look to propose a solution with a problem I see) but am still firmly of the belief that if all they do is change the heroes I’d much prefer to loot ticket it for no points. Now that is just my opinion, and I’m entitled to my opinion, just as those who enjoys Challenge Events as they currently are is entitled to disagree with me. In the end a game needs to balance and find a compromise between the many opinions of its player base – whilst each player finds the enjoyable aspects of a game outweigh the not so enjoyable they will continue to play. But I would never accuse a player I disagreed with as ruining the game.
A healthy disagreement between fans of a game can even be good for it as the discussions can reveal features and aspects that a broad consensus of the player base would like to see.

However it turns toxic when you get players who think they’re entitled to say how they think others SHOULD play the game or that they SHOULD play it a certain way. This is not to be confused with friendly take-it-or-leave-it advice on how you could improve your gameplay – this is quite virtuous to a game community. It is the “if you don’t play this way you are dumb, lazy or ruining the game” edicts that are toxic to a game community. Not everyone wants to play the same way as each other and enjoys different things: whether you’re a merc or an alliance stalwart, have one or multiple accounts or prefer mono or rainbow teams provided the gameplay is within the rules you have to tolerate one another or the size of the player base shrinks to no-longer be viable.

You as a player have the right to create and run an alliance by any set of rules you see fit (within certain laws) and point players not meeting those rules towards an alliance better suited to them with the toe-end of your boot. You can also move around until you find an alliance with rules you agree with and players you gel with. What is not OK is detrimentally trying to force others to play in a way they don’t enjoy, it is not fair to either of you. I know how hard it can be to recruit for an alliance and so I know for many it can seem hard to boot a player knowing you’ll have to try replace them but at the end of the day I’d always advise that a smaller alliance working together to agreed rules will be happier than a divided one just trying to keep enough players in for the numbers to get a slightly higher star titan.

I have seen great Empires and Puzzles content and advice circulate in Discord and Line groups that has never graced these forums because the content creators and players that made them have got tired of the forum toxicity of others making ad-hominin attacks at people for daring to have an opinion they disagreed with. When you look back at some of the vitriol and accusations that went way beyond polite disagreement that got tossed Anchor’s way each time a new hero was graded it’s a totally understandable position to take when you know how many people have absolutely no respect for the amount of time people have taken to produce something to try help some players. I know that when it came to posting my analysis on Power Creep I spent a good time weighing up whether it would do enough good for the community/game to outweigh the detritus I was expecting I would have to wade through and wasting time from my life responding to said detritus.

Ultimately if there is one thing I think the player base/forum is possible guilty of is perpetuating a sense that Small Giant should be excused for x or y as they’re such a small company with such small teams. This would be reasonable if that was by necessity, but it isn’t. We’re all aware Zynga acquired SG at the turn of the year for what is expected to finally total $700m – but even before that we know SG was planning to spend $80m in User Acquisition in 2018 alone (https://venturebeat.com/2018/06/02/how-small-giant-games-scored-big-with-a-single-mobile-game/) but when it comes to User Retention Small Giant has been getting a lot of that for free from the community. Once the in-game tutorial ends how many players then turned to guides made by voluntary community creators such as Coppersky’s Compendium or Anchor’s Hero Ratings for guidance who otherwise may have left in confusion instead. Or turned to the forums for assistance which were being moderated by community volunteers. When you also factor in many companies pay for their beta testing you get a sense of how much free assistance SG has had from its player base. So with that sort of money floating around in Acquisition alone and lots of free assistance from the community why is the development team so small? The reason is by choice:

It feels as though Empires & Puzzles could grow to become one of the bigger brands in mobile games, and this will bring the need for more resources at the studio. Despite this, Soininen (SG C.E.O.) is determined to keep the headcount low, staying true to the developers’ smaller origins.

“In terms of headcount, we’ll probably grow a little bit but the name Small Giant requires us to be small,” he says.

From: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2018-07-30-empires-and-puzzles-disrupting-the-biggest-market-with-the-smallest-team

When you’re dumping: Raid Tournaments, Hunters Lodge, Alchemy Lab, Hero Academy, Advanced Buildings, Skins/Costumes, Challenge Event rework with 10 additional heroes and the usual HOTM additions on to an understaffed development team for the year keeping the team small because it is in the name is not on. There’s a well-used phrase in engineering and management, “Good, cheap, quick. Pick two.” By understaffing the development team SG are going with cheap and quick for which we’ve seen the resulting hit in quality in raid tournaments that may never get addressed at this rate. And especially if we all let management to continue undervaluing the player base it has got by apologising for their decisions.

Rather than people picking fights with other forum members, accusing other players of ruining the game or apologising for SG’s management keeping the headcount too low the player base needs to be saying “Stop taking your player base for granted, hire a couple more developers to fix current issues and address some of the more requested features in a more reasonable time frame.” $80m on User Acquisition means nothing if user retention collapses.

I’m sure this opinion too will be considered game ruining but what the hell. They certainly have the funds for an additional developer or two and indeed I’d argue that improving features and addressing community concerns sooner would pay for itself with higher user retainment.


Just wanted to say I appreciate all your comments and insights and ideas. Very much enjoy reading your well thought out posts that I’m often in agreement with :+1:


I see nothing game ruining in your post. Everyone is entitled to their opinion as long as they’re respectful about them, and I agree with much of what you’ve stated. I think the OP was in reference more to players who are… well… basically selfish jerks. Of which there are many, but that’s not a reflection on SG per se, you’ll find those types everywhere.


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