Whats the point of "elemental training (TC 5-9 / 14-18)" in Training Camp?

General Discussion
1

I have a problem with the costs of the elemental training that IMHO makes it completely useless.

Because wrong elemental heroes for leveling give you less XP you might want to train specific element to level you heroes faster, but in fact the costs are not worth the XP-penalty.

The costs are:

8500 food
5 recruits
1 practice sword
1 backpack (adventurers kit)
Time: 1h
Result: elemental heroe common or uncommon

The uncommon training (level2) on the other hand has this costs:

2000 food
2 recruits
1 backpack (adventurers kit)
Time: 30m
Result random-elemental heroe common or uncommon

This is how much you save:
food: 76,5%
recruits: 60%
backpacks: 0%
swords: 100%
time: 50%

Sacrificing wrong elemental heroe gives 20% less XP, but not going for elemental-training costs you far less food, recruits, no swords and gives you heroes lot faster… also 1/5th of the heroes going to be the right element by random so you probably will only end up with only 16% XP penalty per backpack.

From my point of view, because of the costs of everything increase and going to increase during the game, I see no point in sacrificing that amount of food and recruits and wait double the time only to save a few XP per backback.

I think the elemental training should not cost a backpack… THEN it would be an alternative when backpacks run out and you can afford the high food and recruit costs.

Something is wrong, or simply i dont see the point of elemental training… it is not faster, it is not cheaper in the outcome and the only advantage is a little more XP after you wait double the time. So instead if you do elemental training a lot you slow down your progress a lot.

What do you think?

9 Likes
2

Use 2 TC 11, 1 TC 2 and 1 TC 1 or 19 to get the most effective amount of feeders in comparison to the used resources.

Then feed mostly on color to get the plus of XP.

Last TC can be changed to 11 or 20, if you need heroes, to store food or to get new ham.

5 Likes
3

PLease, i ask precisely of what is the point of elemental training lvl 5-9, i dont want your common training-tips, spare it! Thanks.

4

You are right, the elemental trainings are not worth using.

2 Likes
5

Truly there is no point in the elemental trainings, and I am sure most educated players don’t even use them. That’s why players have often requested ideas for redesigning the TCs. This particular thread might be of interest to you.

4 Likes
6

But the extra cheap training is the right spot to look how to regaing these -16% XP drop from the wrong element.

Example comparison on 1 training camp usage:

4x lvl 5-9 (elemental training):
34k food
20 recruits
4 backpacks
4 swords
duration: 4hours
result 4 specific element common/uncommon heroes

vs

4x lvl2 (uncommon):
8k food
8 recruits
4 backpacks
duration: 2h
result: 4 random-element common/uncommon

but we still ahve 2 hours time, right… so we go for an additional training before elemental is finished:

plus:

2x lvl 11 (extra cheap)
2k food
4 recruits
duration: 2 hours
results: 2 non-elemental common/uncommon

so we have 6 non-elemental common/uncommon, with the same duration, without a sword, lot cheaper food, lot less recruits…

So despite you have random heroes that give 20% (16% overall) less XP… just running normal and extra cheao (lvl 2 + lvl 11) in the end not only is lot cheaper but gives you 50% more heroes… and +50% more heroes in the same time.is worth 20% XP drop… in fact it means using elemental training is a very costly MISTAKE.

Andd i think that is NOT how it should intended to be.

THIS IS A BALANCING BUG IMHO!

2 Likes
7

Thanks pirate king… i already thought i was the only one noticing :wink:

ANd btw having elemental training useless… makes your swords stockpile, so they go for beeing practically useless right now too.

I would just remove the backpack costs… because how it runs out actually is that you are always low on backpacks… having it only use swords, it would be a lot more attractive, despite the high food/recruit cost.

My advice:
Do NOT reasearch it at all in the beginning, put that ressources into building your base faster, you dont need elemental-training at any time before this balancing bug has not been fixed,

1 Like
8

Not even sure if anyone uses it :rofl:

9

Since AR exist i always do in this time S2:9:10 normal with the saved World energy flasks. Gives much backpacks + also very much of finished 1* and 2* heroes + 1* and 2* troups for feeding them. And much additional XP and loot, like food, iron , dragon bones and anything else. In the past AR i did repeatedly only S2:9:10 normal with a team, which is able to autofarm .
Now i’ve got an TC2 piled 28 days of continous training.

Screenshot_20191004-113146_Empires
Screenshot_20191004-113146_Empires976Ă—291 145 KB
which is enough 'til next AR.

10

The are totally worthless IMO.

11

here is my summary about Training Camp.

TC Recruits Foods Mats Time Result Best Notes
1 5 1,600 sword 10m *1
2 5 2,000 kits 30m *1, *2
3 5 5,000 sword 2m *1
4 4 1,500 - 3h *1, *2 mini TC11
5 5 8,500 sword,kit 1h *1, *2 RED
6 5 8,500 sword,kit 1h *1, *2 BLUE
7 5 8,500 sword,kit 1h *1, *2 GREEN
8 5 8,500 sword,kit 1h *1, *2 PURPLE
9 5 8,500 sword,kit 1h *1, *2 YELLOW
10 25 105,000 cloth,manual 1d *1, *2, *3
11 2 1000 - 2h *1, *2 stock recruits
12 45 164,000 cloth,manual 2d *3
13 70 265,000 armour,wooden shield 2d *3, *4 mini TC20
14 25 105,000 manual 1d *1, *2, *3 RED
15 25 105,000 cloth 1d *1, *2, *3 BLUE
16 25 105,000 manual 1d *1, *2, *3 GREEN
17 25 105,000 cloth 1d *1, *2, *3 PURPLE
18 25 105,000 manual 1d *1, *2, *3 YELLOW
19 2 5,500 cloth 1m *1
20 100 297,000 stone 2d *3, *4, *5 stock food

It can be worth if there is a bonus chance to get a trained heroes *1-*4 on each element TC5-9 and TC14-18, then I’m sure I will research someday.

3 Likes
12

Players do until they’re shown/told the stats.

We had a few mid-level (30) players in our alliance still using them, and we hadn’t made any posts about training in months bc we assumed players at that level would know better.

But yeah, semi-casual players often assume that those TC levels are there for a legit reason and not just to bleed resources from uneducated players.

1 Like
13

You discover the cold water.
Yes, elemental trainings are just steps to reach more useful trainings.

I don’t see any other reason to make them, and no reason at all to use them.

So far in 30 months i never do such training.

1 Like
14

I agree with you on this, I found myself using mostly TC2, and TC11 the latter on a very long queue, hardly on those elemental trainings, mainly due to their higher resources demand.

15

Best to not even research them. Just upgrade to certian levels…
It is explained actually in beginners guide thread. I was lucky to read them when starting out a few months ago…
I only do research finally when my food storages were full …

16

Sacrificing wrong elemental hero give me not only 20% less XP, but also (and this is much more important) reduces by half a chance for levelling hero’s special skill. Now, you can maximize special skill of full levelled hero, but it was not true before class and emblems time. Moreover, if you don’t have AM for 2-nd and 3-rd (for 5 star) or for 3-rd (for 4 star) tier, sometimes you prefer to have special skill maxed before a hero levelling is stopped because of lack of AM materials. Then I think, elemental trainings (lvl 5-9) are useful.

17

I can share with you my story.

I pulled Ariel and was very excited about her. I wanted to level her asap, even though I didn’t have scopes yet. At that time she would be useful for me at 3.70 anyway.

So I put all my feeders in her but the special skill didn’t want to go up. When I was 3.30ish and special skill still at 4 I decided that I want to feed her with blue heroes only. So I developed the blue training for uncommons and used it for couple days because I did not want to wait for gathering them randomly from TC2.

Sad thing about that is I still ended up with Ariel skill 7/8 at 3.70. And I also never used the option since. But back then, for a very short time, there was a point for me to do it.

Still totally agree it’s a joke feature, same as Alchemy lab early levels etc.

1 Like
18

koziar993, suicide_bunny:

Luckily up to now all my 4* and 5* went up to least 7 special-skill level before 3/70, and most are even 8 at that point, so I not imagine having such problems at any point in the game. But well, it might be useful for levelling 3* heroes which are harder to max on special-skill before level is max… especially for tournaments where you time doing so is kinda limited.

But lets do the math to be 100% sure it is useful for that particular case:

Wrong element once the heroe is at max level for 1* 5% and 2* 10%, elemental is double that.

Like calculated above, when combining lvl2 and lv11, this gives you 50% more heroes in the same time at quite lower cost, and 1/5 of them is the correct element.

Lets say 50% are common and 50% are uncommon and 1 of 6 random is the element you want:
Elemental-training 4 x 1*/2*: 2 x 20% + 2 x 10% = 60% chance
lvl2/11-training 6 x 1*/2*: 3 x 10% + 2 x 5% + 1 x 10% or 20% = 50 - 60%

If you are lucky with 2 of 6 beeing correct element you have 75%… or more even higher, the chance that none of 6 is correct on the other hand is quite low, but it would only give you 45%.

But yes, at average you get little less than 10% higher chance with elemental-training, and truely enough, feeding heroes cost food per heroe, so the lvl2/11-way in the above case has 50% higher upgrade cost too…

lvl2/11-way for this costs 24k less food (see comparison in my latest post (34k vs 8k+2k), while feeding 2 more heroes for a 3*-heroe does not cost 24k, so it is still more expensive to go elemental-training.

Also the elemental-training in the case consumes 12 more recruits for less than 10% more chance.

So since you dont barely need it for 4*/5* (sry to hear about Ariel :wink: mostly for 3* and the advantage is a minimal chance gain, not as big as you might thought before… i would still say: It’ not worth it… you can get the chance as high or even higher with cheaper random.

In fact the difference in food is minimal pro non-elemental, the difference in special chance is minimal pro elemental… the major issue is the recruits you throw out of the window for no reason when going elemental…

We can end it here.

19

Hi @WillyWuerger

Could you add a reference to training camps in your title? Then other people will find the discussion in the future, it’s a little ambiguous at the moment :slightly_smiling_face:

Training by using like-coloured feeders = useful
Using colour specific training camps = pointless

1 Like
20

Ok, i have done that.

1 Like