War defenses are starting to outpace attacks


#1

Honestly, I think the reason a lot of teams feel their wars are unfair is because the defenses are starting to have a disproportionate effect on the outcome. We’re at a point where, as a 120k alliance, every war we fight features half a field of fully levelled 5 star heros on defense. We can kill most of these guys once, but killing them twice takes a massive number of banners. And while I think to some degree that’s fine, soon it will get to the point where, even at our 300th ranked alliance, we will face almost entirely 5 star heros due to how much easier it is to level a defense than 30 attack heros.

So, how about making a switch that no team can use the same hero on defense two wars in a row? We need to did deep into our rosters to attack, right? Well, let’s make it so you need to do the same thing on defense. Just throwing out the same 5 fully levelled 5 stars each time seems lazy. Make everyone show their depth.


#2

I like this idea very much. It certainly would change some of the war tactics. Not many non gemmers will have 10 leveled 5* heroes.


#3

It’s already been proposed a while ago but the devs stated that AW is an exciting feature as it is.
There have been many posts on how to improve AW but they seem a bit dense when it comes to listening to constructive feedback.
It’s so exciting I had to force myself to use my flags just now (lol).


#4

I actually agree with them that the feature is exciting. But as players evolve, the feature has to evolve, too. It’s about pace. The pace of defense building is greatly outpacing attack building. When you think about the pace of 5 star hero development, this isn’t a surprise, it’s a natural part of how the game is designed. The way war defenses are set, it allows defenses to be lazy, while you attacks need to be disproportionately dynamic.


#5

I’m working on maxing out #6-10 5* so I’d be fine with this proposal as I’m sure will many others that also have a large # of 5*. But I did have this same thought. Maybe you set up multiple defense teams and every X hours it swaps to your new defense. I dunno what the answer is, but you’re absolutely right that it’s getting difficult when every team now seems to have 3600+ defenses almost across the board. As an alliance, we’ve kind of lost interest in AW and don’t really care whether we win or lose any more. I did like the addition of the variants, and the adjustment to the arrow variant, but not sure how to make it actually fun. I kind of just feel dread now when I see the prepare for war notice. Also almost everyone in my group feels 2x week is too much and many can’t participate much (and certainly not coordinate) during the work week. Yes, I know we don’t have to play and soon individuals will be able to opt out. Many will choose to do that. I’m trying to think beyond that about how to make this fun (but perhaps lots of people do find it fun as is, I dunno)


#6

I must have missed some thing: since when is AW exciting?
So far whether our alliance has won or lost, it never was exciting, not even interesting.
And it is especially not exciting to see the loot.
AW has become a “collect some arbitrary 5 heros and hit an arbitrary enemy three times in a row twice a day” kind of thing, that I do only because some people in our alliance still hope for better loot.
In addition: AW is just one more reason for (the absolutely evil) cup dropping.
It is totally funny to see, how cup dropping is pronounced to be the way to eternity in hell and everything is done to promote it even more.


#7

For sure, they’ve done what I consider to be a great job adjusting the variants so far. The arrow attack also had a really disproportionate effect, and they managed a really well-done tweak on that feature. War defenses are the next frontier that will need exploring.


#8

We actually, generally speaking, enjoy the challenge of the wars. Honestly, as a level 46 player, the features that involve playing as an alliance are the reason for playing the game. Quests, the board, raids? These things really don’t hold a ton of excitement for higher level players. Evaluating and executing war strategy is interesting.


#9

You do realize that anything related to cups hasn’t been part of AW matching for a long time right? When it first started it was alliance score, but then moved to titan score and then a variety of top5/top30/titan score mashup.

I dunno, my alt’s alliance, most of us have no problem beating a defense of 5s with 4s on th attack like 1/2 or 2/3 of the time.


#10

To confirm what Dante said, it’s been at least May 15 since cupdropping affected AW:

https://support.smallgiantgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/360001566714-Alliance-Wars-Change-Log


#11

Yeah, for sure, Dante, we just won to today, so we were a level to coordinate attacks enough to overcome it, but it still feels kind of lazy. “I’ve got my 5, 5 star heros, so my war defense is set forever now.” I don’t know, just feels like there should be more challenge there.


#12

I like this idea as well as the idea of making each member field more than one defense team and have it rotate through so when team 1 is killed, team 2 spawns, then team 1 again (Possibly with a team power threshold so new or casual players with team power under some level don’t have to trot out a second team with 2s or unlevelled 3s). Then you get all the strategy of mixing your heroes for the best pair of D teams etc.


#13

Not two different teams for two different wars, but two different teams for the same war? Sure that sounds great! Take the first team out and when that player revives it’s their second team that’s used. To be forced to use two different teams for two different wars would increase the match-up problem because alliances like mine are ALWAYS way outmatched and each player only even has one half decent defense team. To not stand a chance when we finally get an equal opponent just because we can’t use our only good defense team would be cruel.


#14

well it’s actually the other way around - if you never improve your defense (either via better 5s or troop leveling), the attacks will get EASIER as more folks get a larger stable of 1. more powerful heroes to attack with, both in first attack and stronger attacks in the back half as well and 2. more heroes allows them to color stack vs tank deeper into the war.

So if you do nothing to improve your defense, over time it will become easier for attackers, not your defense, barring any other changes to AW mechanics.

But from hints I’ve seen dropped about season 2, there are new mechanics coming for ways to improve heroes beyond just troops.


#15

@Dante2377: No, I did not realize that. Thank you, honestly, to pointing that up. Then this removes one advantage of cup dropping.
And also much thanks to @Rook for linking that page. I did also not notice so far, that this existed.

If AW-maching is like described on that page it is strange that it works that bad. We really had no fair fight (no matter which side won) since the first 2 or 3 AWs.
Maybe it is because “team strength” is not really always a good measure?
Or maybe thay just should also weigh in the 2nd 30 heros (keyword: team depth) and the best troops per color?
The best 5 heros (together with their top troops) should be weighted significantly highest, because that will represent defence.
Then weigh in the next best 25 heros (including troops) middle heigh.
And the next 30 heros (again including best troops) with weight 1 to represent team depth.

The sum of that should give a nice measure.
But basically they are already doing (almost) that already, according to the support page.
Very strange.


#16

I’m wondering if some “30’s” are artificially inflated. See below:

The 3* here (fully leveled) are higher power than the 4* (new). If someone’s 30 is filled with relatively high power level cards that have not in fact been leveled yet, that guy/gal is in trouble when facing a prepared opponent. The numbers look good (“top 30 cards”), but they are effectual weaklings on the field.

I’m not sure how one could calculate this to properly match folks, though I’ve heard some ideas. :confused:


#17

That is one of the artifacts that I meant with “team strength is not a good measure”.


#18

I had to create an account just to reply to this… No.

Both sides have defenses, so it is not a balance issue between sides. Attacker ALWAYS has the advantage against a static defense. There are six attack flags per player. Up to 30 players a side. Damage to the defense persists. Attack team can be set specifically to counter the defense or damage it badly.

I believe the frustration with the defense comes from a desire to prevail against it in one flag and score individual points in an event where only team points matter.

Just my opinion, and a different perspective.


#19

Just build deeper stronger rosters and you’ll be fine.


#20

This is pretty daunting. Deeper, stronger rosters involve either massive amount of money for summons (odds being bad), or massive amount of luck in tc20. A relatively new player has to get those AND the mats to ascend them, also with very poor odds. That can work for older players with some unlevelled heroes sitting around, but we are talking at least a year here (if they are very lucky) for someone new to have even 3 worthy teams.