W3K, it's issues and ideas to help fix them

Hello everyone,

With yet another War of 3 Kingdoms under our belts, and yet another round of a bunch of unhappy players (Wouldn’t have it any other way), I think it’s time I write another forum post where I list some issues I’ve been hearing (And experienced) a lot and give my take and ideas on them to help work towards resolving them, or at least dampen the severity.

For those who don’t know me yet, I’m Fur from 7DD and I have done a similar post in the past with relatively the same structure as what this one will have.
The last time I did this, the E&P team heard my voice by working towards fixing the problems the community felt was needed to be addressed.
I am hoping this post will have the same effect.

So, with the introduction out of the way, let’s get into the heart of what I wanted to talk about :
W3K’s flag useage, or lack thereof.
After checking multiple of the top warbands in my kingdom, there was something all of them had in common ; They all had on average a hundred unsued flags. Some had less and some had more, but not a single one had almost all their flags used (98% or more).
Everyone I have heard talk about W3K have expressed the same issue : There is too many flags left on the field at the end of the war, and most of the battles between warbands were decided by how many flags were left on the table, which made a lot of people unhappy about the results.

I have gathered a couple of ideas from myself and others and I came up with a couple of ways to look at this particular issue and it’s ways to fix it.

Increasing W3Ks visibility :
Some of the complaints I heard were that there was no reminder that the kingdom war was ongoing except the tab in Events Quest, which caused some to forget it was live and use their flags. (There’s a portal with offers related to the war, but hey…)
So here are some ideas to increase the war’s visibility to remind people that the war is live.

1- Add the same small swords icon on the Events Quest icon as there is on the Alliance icon when you still have flags to use in bi-weekly wars and on the Raids icon when you still have flags to use in the weekly tournament.
2- Replace the W3K tab in the Events Quest section to a big panel like there is for monthly events and Alliance Quest. (This could be done for Towers and Mythic Titans too, it is much easier to see and we’re already all used to these big panels who are, in my opinion, more attractive)
3- Add a banner when entering the game like there is for promoting portals, but promoting the W3K war in itself and encouraging people to go and use their flags.
These will help people be reminded to participate in the war.

Another issue that came up is that some couldn’t get their last set of 3 flags in (Or had difficulties to) beause of the amount of time there is between the adding of new flags and the time left after the last set has been added for use.
This could be fixed by remodelling how flags are released. Either giving 6 flags the beginning and the other 6 at the 24 hour mark of the war clock or straight up having all 12 flags available from the start. Both the former and the latter would alleviate the pressure to find time to use flags each quarter or all 12 at the last quarter of the war and would allow us to use them when we have enough free time to do so.

Another point of discussion was how there wasn’t incentives to use flags (Besides end loot, of course), and that it would cause some people to not care enough about the war and not use their flags.
Some solutions :
1- Add Event Valor Challenges specific to W3K like there is for monthly Events and Alliance Quest. For example, a reward could be given for using 6 flags, 12 flags or even be creative and push people out of their comfort zone by having challenges like using a rainbow team, 4* heroes only, 3 heroes of the same element or 5 of the same or to attack an opponent that you have already attacked once before during the war. Valor Challenges like these would definitely spice things up and reward us at the same time, while not forcing people who just want to do their own things.
2- Add small rewards for successfully killing a target like there is for normal raids. (Ham, Iron, 1* crafting/ascension items…)
The following is an idea that came up a lot in some groups and most seemed to like it :
Add a ‘buy-in’ in gems that serves as a deposit when signing up that gets reinbursed related to the % of flags used, but still have a free sign-up for players who aren’t looking to take the event as seriously as others and matching both ways separately in warbands. This would filter players and separate them into 2 categories ; those who are serious and those who want to have fun. The buy-in would also serve as a way to hold people who chose that option accountable for not using flags by losing gems, while those who chose the free buy-in would still be free to do how they please.
I am unable to come up with a buy-in cost that would be fair and matter for all type of spenders, C2P and non-spenders, so I am not going to come up with a number.

The last point I wanted to bring up is that there should be penalties or punishments for players who leave flags on the table. While I am not totally on board with this, I thought it was still a good enough talking point to bring up and deserved to be talked about.
1- Tag every player at the end of each W3K war with a number from 0 to 12 according to their number of unused flags in the database, then use that extra parameter in the next W3K matchmaking to create warbands of players who are flagged the same. Those who previously used 12 flags get paired together versus another warband with players of the same tag, those who used 11 are paired with and against those who used 11, 10 with 10 and so on until players who used no flags during last Kingdom war are matched with and versus players who did the same.
This would create fairer warband matches overtime while holding people accountable for their past mishaps while still giving them a chance to redeem themselves if they want to be matched in warbands of players who use all their flags.
2- Though I am not completely on board with this one and I can see it’s flaws, I thought it was still a worthy enough suggestion to add : Tag every player at the end of each W3K war according to their scores and use that extra parameter during future W3K matchmakings.
This would create fairer matches between warbands. Those with deeper rosters and better skills will get to war with and against peers of the same assets while when trickling down the order, warband matches would still remain fair.
3- This is one I absolutely do not like, but I heard it so much that I am still going to include it : Ban players who didn’t use a single flag last W3K from participating in the next war.

You may have realized that I haven’t talked about loot yet, and that’s because I think it has been beautifully arranged and is related to score/flag useage very well. I wanted to say that on that front, I believe you guys have nailed it perfectly !
And for those who believe I say this because I received great loot, please don’t be mistaken ; I still haven’t received a single 4* mat from this event yet, but I have seen loot from pretty much all tiers and warband placements, hence why I’m saying the loot is well distributed.

I also love the W3K wars, and I believe that once every 2 months is not enough, we should get to war in them every calendar ! This would benefit both sides, players and E&P staff/company, more war and loot for us and more portals, new heroes to release and offers to release to us at the same time.

And finally, on a completely unrelated note from W3K, I wanted to talk about something else that comes up regularly and that I believe people are right, which is the scarcity of high end loot in the Alliance quest in all tiers.
AQ is an event that happens only once every 3 months that alliances and players put huge efforts, time, gems, battle items and materials of all sorts for seemingly very small rewards.
I believe that in the past when there wasn’t so many Aether deals, the loot was fine as it is now, but now that there are more than a dozen (Or almost, depends on the week) Aether IIIs for sale each week, the AQ rewards should be adjusted to reflect and be on par with the pace of Aether sales.
Unfortunately, I do not have the number of rolls and percentages per roll for each rarity in each tier, but I believe both should be adjusted significantly higher to incentivize people and alliances to continue putting effort into this event.

To conclude, I know it is difficult to talk about good points in posts like these, but I would like to highlight the fact that I have always been very happy with the service I have received from support and I think that you guys have been doing a good job overall !

If any of you have any suggestions or tweaks to my ideas, please discuss them below and let us know what you think.

Please have a wonderful day, kindly,
Fur

20 Likes

I think you may have a very limited view on loot. For most people who are not in the very top warbands of the winning kingdom, loot has been absolute trash.

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I have suggested to give this event a joining fee of 1200 gems. You get 100 gems back with every flag used. This, I believe will separate the committed and the non-committed. Using each flag also gives you incentives like extra coins and even bonus gems/emblems. It could be used to supplement the terrible end loot as well

Unlike spending gems on portals where there is at least still a slim chance which is lose-win of getting the reward (a new 5* hero), spending 1200 gems and not getting back those gems is a lose-lose situation for anyone. And people here ■■■■■ about spending an obligatory 250 gems in the towers for completion.
Nobody would be crazy enough to blow gems of any amount without any return like that, unless they just don’t care. And if they don’t care, they just lose gems at the end. That’s enough punishment imo. Especially when real money is used to purchase these gems, people would give a care no matter what.

This also means lesser people would join, but I believe being committed and using all 12 flags is more important.

But then again, do we have to resort to using a fee just to encourage participation? I don’t know and it’s just a suggestion.

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Exactly, loot is complete trash if you´re not a whale. You can have top spot in a winning skirmish and get 17 coins and 12 emblems lol.
The only good loot is the whale loot (warband or whatever its called), only big spenders can win it.
Well maybe kingdom loot is good too, I have never been in a winning kingdom. Second place kingdom gets nothing anyway.

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1200 gems will separate the event into whales only (who play) and everybody else who don´t play, because they don´t want to risk their gems for garbage loot. The W3K is not even running stable yet… I so far always used all my flags, but that risk I would not take for sure. And many FTPs don´t even have that many gems to sign up.

This. I’d have problem to collect even 500, not talking about 1200.

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@TheFur

First of all thank you for the time to create you post. Your ideas, suggestions and obvious enthusiasm are much appreciated.
However, much of this has been said before collectively by the players in the W3K feedback thread @Dudeious.Maximus ….
Whilst I agree with the majority of what you have said, I do have some exceptions……

  • I could NOT support your suggestion of a “buy-in” … this event should be both fair and free for all for obvious reasons. And I really dislike the first class / second class player implications…
  • I am not sure how you make matchmaking fair using the number of flags used when roster size could be significantly different. It would take considerable time to even this out which in itself would cause “other” problems / issues …
  • The idea of “banning” players from this event, I find well - really appalling. It just shouldn’t be applied in my opinion …
    Just my two pennies worth ……
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True, but 1200 gems is returned to you as long as you use all flags and with some bonus incentives. It’s not much, but no one is losing anything and it’s used mostly to encourage participation. I do agree that 1200 is whale territory, perhaps lower gem fee?

I agree with most of what you say, as I have brought up most of these points in one way or another after every W3K so far :D.
I think the only thing you haven´t mentioned that often comes up is to fix the dysfunctional scoring system, but I suppose that is because in the (top level) world you play in, it is not causing mayhem as it does in mid/low level game play.
But as I have said earlier in other similar posts this time: SG has publicly declared W3K as low priority, meaning they aren´t going to work on it in any reasonable timeframe. So while most of these ideas are great and all the others are at least worth talking about, nothing will come of it other than talking :frowning:

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It is much for FTPs, for me personally (C2P not FTP) it would be acceptable as I tend to keep enough gems for a 10-pull, but not everybody does.
The problem is that W3K is not even running stable yet (all 4 iterations inculding the betas have had some kind of bug), so even if the idea is to take all 12 flags and get the gems back, there is no guarantee that it will not have another hickup making me lose my last 3 flags. That risk is simply not worth running as no loot any FTP can ever get is worth 300 gems.

One way to improve on this model would be to return 105 gems for every flag taken, that would make all FTPs play and take all flags :slight_smile: And over time could alleviate the risk of loosing flags due to a bug.

Lowering the fee also would help FTP/CTP, but it would defeat the purpuse in whale country, I doubg anyone in the top 100 alliances would care about having or losing 500 gems (or even less). Maybe it would have to be a fee staggered by account size, 10000 for the top players 100 for the smallest.

This is a great analysis and sums up everything which was said in the respective topics. What is definitely an issue, is that almost everybody sees many issues in the W3K. The worst one is the flags left.

Quite frankly I think this will be the ultimate solution. No gems included, only engagement, which is totally up to you.

In the end, there will be lots of warbands without any activity, so these people will eventually not sign up anyway, since there won’t be any value for them.

This is a bit of overkill. Right now matchmaking is quite good in terms of players’ potential in each warband (at least I think so)

This is also a very good suggestion.

Sadly, as we’ve seen in Q&A, fixing anything bad is of low priority.

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Ah yes, it’s constantly buggy to the point where the event can just ‘stop’ like that. I didn’t even get to join this Wo3k because I didn’t join in time and the event just vanished from my account. And back from the first Wo3k I lost 5 flags due to the bug. Yeah, the bugs need to be ironed out before something like a gem fee could be implemented. Terrible event from start to finish, the bugs and ■■■■■■■■ ruined it

The scoring system sucks. And it sucks real bad.

@TheFur :

In case you haven’t realised, the best rewards come from warband ranking within a kingdom.

Warband scoring is based on the aggregate of players’ W3K war score, plus points from their skirmish wins/losses.

Warbands are formed with players of similar roster and troop strength, similar to each player’s war score computation, minus the attributable points from war wins/losses.

This is an inbuilt bias which predicates that warbands comprising players from top 100 alliances, which includes You and the rest of your 7DD mates, Would Automatically make it to at least the first quintile ranking for Warband Ranking within a Kingdom.

This means that good loot is virtually guaranteed for You and the rest of the players from Top 100 alliances, even with unused flags and poor performance.

If you deem this type of loot distribution to be fair, Do spare a thought for the mid/lower tier players who performed well in their skirmishes but received much sadder loot because they were in a warband that is ranked much lower.

Why did Zynga/SGG distribute loot this way?

Because Zynga/SGG wanted to avoid another post-CoK loot brouhaha initiated by You,
that deepened into a #NoSpend movement initiated by @Hilaria,
that culminated in private discussion between some members of the Top Tier and Zynga/SGG,
with the end result that better loot was “reserved” for the top 1000 placements, leaving chaff for the rest.

Would I blame Zynga/SGG for this biased distribution of loot in W3K?

No, because it is perfectly rational for Zynga/SGG to prioritise the higher spending customers, usually termed “whales”, to keep them happy, keep them engaged by allowing them to display their roster/troop prowess, and most importantly, keep them spending.

How else can Zynga/SGG try to maintain a monthly average of US$20m revenue (at least) for a game that has reached 5 years of age? That average is climbing up slowly with each new portal, each buff exercise, reaching an average of US$21.3m over 14 months.

If you think that good loot should be better distributed for CoK, then please expand that request to include W3K, after all both events have their fair share of mid/lower tier players.

Otherwise, active participation in this game will decline further, at a faster rate.

Not that Zynga/SGG will care, since bulk of monthly revenue comes from a small percentage of player population.

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Why wouldnt you not support banning a player leaving all 12 flags? Should that player be allowed to disappoint their teammates again. Sorry but i disagree on this

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Great write up Fur. I love the idea of assigning a number based on flags used. Theres one thing i hate is players letting down teammates. We finished number in this last wk3 war and 5 players used 0 flags received the same loot as those who used all 12. Maybe loot can be paid out by percentage of flags used.
Another thing the loot was great because we placed well. The amount of aethers for sold it doesnt balance out. Give better loot to all participants it would definitely increase flag usage by all involved. Wether its a 4 star mat or a large Aether something like that would work. SG certainly can afford it. It would also be a great gesture to the player base. No one is getting excited over a few emblems and practice swords lol

To be honest I have never supported calls from players asking for others to be “punished” or “banned” or “excluded” from any part of this game because they didn’t use all their war flags, or didn’t hit the Titan 3 times or more or didn’t fully participate in Mythic Titan, W3K or any other “alliance” type event.

You ask for a reason - W3K was tested and found to have many valid faults. However it was pushed / rushed out by SG / Zynga as it is - “Broken”….

Additionally when all of the “said” problems have been raised many, many times - SG / Zynga have acknowledged them but said its NOT a priority to undertake any “repair” work in the foreseeable future.

So we all sign into a part of the game with the full knowledge that W3K is “broken” and that the majority of us are going to be badly disappointed and frustrated by the result. Too many unused war flags, too many war flags to actually use, too long a playtime, mismatch in “alliances”, poor comms, poor loot, inappropriate scoring system, players snatching cleanups, players not having enough strong heroes in their roster to cover so many flags etc etc etc

So when playing something that is acknowledged to be “broken”, I am not sure how you benchmark who needs to be punished and what the punishment would be.

As an example in my last W3K …

We had players that left all flags.
We had players that only used 1 to 6 flags.
We had players that snatched cleanups.
We had players that obviously didn’t want to bother and only scored 1 or 2 or 0 points per war flag.
We had players that dodged the “hard” or “ difficult” defence teams at the expense of colleagues (at one point this caused a bottleneck of players queuing to use flags on the last man standing).
We had players getting frustrated and shouting abuse in chat…
Etc, etc,

What penalties would you apply to any or all of that? And would there be any “appeal” system because of RLS stuff ….

It’s right that people vent their frustration because W3K is “broken” …… but let’s not call for colleagues to be “banned” simply because SG / Zynga don’t have time to repair the game yet.

For me personally I log into W3K use all of my flags and have accepted that the whole of W3K is just well - “pants”……
My only other option is to opt out of W3K until it is repaired ….

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Maybe it’s better to opt out till Zynga/SGG rebalances their priorities to focus on fixing some existing Live Game issues rather than focusing 100% on that Dragon, that Monster Island, hero creation and other initiatives focusing solely on revenue generation.

Or opt in and not expect much. Use W3K to test war teams, roster depth, or other personal reasons.

There is a reason that CoK participation is declining: some players opted out when it became obvious that better loot has been reserved for the top 1000 placements.

Guess this will happen to W3K too.

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When you check the box opting in you are comitting to using all of your flags not what ever you chose. If you cant follow through dont check the box. Should everyone just check the box and not use flags. If theres no punishment what will happen? Maybe SG can just give everyone a participation trophy wether you score 0 or first place

@Charvel74
I think we all have to accept that for the time being nothing will change in W3K.
SG / Zinga have already said it’s not on their priority list to repair W3K.
So we will all be here in the same place next time around.
There will be no punishments and no repairs. It is what it currently is……
So unfortunately no matter how much we vent in these threads our only option is to opt in and play knowing what we know now ( that is what I have chosen to do) OR opt out and save ourselves any possible grief / frustration …

And sorry I still don’t agree in “punishment” within a game - mainly because that is all it is a game - nobody got hurt and nobody died….

Just my opinion (obviously different to yours which is all good) and just my two pennies worth …

I wish you luck in the next W3K

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