V25 says direct mana reduction is a status effect

True, true. With the pseudo bug fixed it’s only confusing as hell.
Shouldn’t be so much effort to have a table with effects and direct things and…oh wait. There’s one on the forum… I’d be glad if my customers would write the documentation :smiley:

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Ok I’m confused. I have mitsuko and used her a lot. I fought against guin a lot too.

What I thought was that mitsuko fired and all allies are protected from blue skills like attacks and anything that a blue hero sent like mana delay etc would reflect back to them. I fought against alasie who should reflect damage then the mana effect should get reflected though I rarely see it since she usually dies from her attack.

So my question is was it supposed to work like this as I described? In other words, all allies reflect damage and block effects.
The damage isn’t an issue its the effects. Should they be reflected or just blocked? And which was the original way it should have worked.
Not having Guin or ursena I can test ursena but its the same skill and thus my reason to post.
From reading it seems that this “fix” essentially made ursena useless against guin.
I know the skills but haven’t spent the time to dissect each one with interactions etc. So should they be reflected or blocked and which heroes fit which. Now I see chao and gato coming in with mention of Buchan. This seems like a serious cluster!#%*

Thanks for any info. I know mitsuko isn’t guin but she’s the best I got so she’s guin to me…lol

Ailments will be reflected, too.
Joon fired at my active Ursl, took damage and got blinded.

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The card says status effects are reflected. The card does not mention blocking other effects – unless that’s changed in the new update.

I think the original way was that other effects were blocked (even though the card text didn’t suggest that). That changed in v24 (or v23? I forget), after which other effects happened as usual (as the card text might suggest). Now the release notes suggest they are to be blocked again (dunno what the cards say).

This would also change Mitsuko significantly. Because as it is right now, Frida and Sonya dispel her even if they might die while doing it, at the end of their turn Mitusko’s buff is gone. So, with this suggested wording change to reflect the special skill, then they would dispel their own buffs instead. As a Mitsuko owner I would love this…

But what I would love even more is if it were just made clear what these specials are supposed to do exactly as I’m sure new issues will arise with future new hero skills too

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Well, block it, at least. The communication from SGG speaks of “blocking negative effects such as mana reduction”, not reflecting.

But yes. :-\

ETA: The release notes for v24 also spoke of blocking:

… now if only the cards were updated to also speak of blocking … I don’t have v25 yet, so cannot check.

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Can’t the card just say: “holy skills are reflected back to the enemy” ? Just wondering, english is not my native language

I’m a mitsuko owner as well. I would agree too. Right now they usually die or are very close to it. Frida is the one pain since she debuffs her too. I occasionally find a blue stack or Frida with another blue. If she fires first She removes the skill from up to 3 leaving 2 protected. Depending on next blue it might hurt me but isarnia still gets some damage.
So if they fire they still get damage reflected. But like Richard his attack down would reflect back to him and allies? Is that right, same with isarnia?
I’m trying to get v25 but its not in Google store yet.

This topic is not about reflecting, because there is no such thing to reflect mana cut. The caster lose his mana in that very moment anyway. The issue is about blocking. Which is absurd. Or like I already said, if they decided to be blocked (therefore a status effect), then allow also preventing. Otherwise is stupid, illogical and irrational. How is it even possible Ursena’s skill to block mana cut and Grazul’s not?? It is about status effects on both cards.

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I’m pretty sure that reflect only puts a status ailment back onto the hero who cast it, even if it’s supposed to affect nearby allies, when it gets sent back, it’s only to the caster. So Richard alone will have att down, Isarnia alone will have def down.

Now with the new wording that all negative effects are to be blocked, then to me that would mean dispel ought to be blocked as well. Otherwise I’m not really sure what the heck is supposed to be happening

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The bottom line is that Ursena should have what the developers intended, despite the multiple errors in terminology that have confused all of us.

Many of us think that Ursena should at least block all effects of yellow specials. She was not intended to reflect mana cuts, but only damage and status effects. The actual effect of this is to resist Guin’s special. I don’t think anyone would argue that Guin needs as many counters as possible. Those who don’t think that should play CP or 7DD in war.

The wording on the card should be changed so that Ursena should block all negative effects of yellow specials and reflect damage and status effects. The release note wording is confusing. It should just say that Ursena’s and Mitsuko’s specials were not blocking negative effects such as mana reduction.

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Obviously. The card says “back to the attacker”. This is not an issue and never was.

This may be a solution, like @Rigs already suggested. To change the descriptions on cards, because atm there are very wrong. Because they actually admit the mana cut is a negative effect (status ailment). Therefore this would be a huge bug, because there are many other heroes should prevent this negative effects, like Aeron, Grazul, Gato… And they don’t!

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Block effects
Reflect damage & ailments

Yup i agree should be the way it is.

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I have a different view but I need to define terms as I see them (which is completely subjective and may be different from what SG and others think)

Status effect = effect that causes changes to the heroes that persist past the current turn. This does NOT include mana cuts and direct damage

Negative effect = any bad effect, including status effects, mana cuts and direct damage. Buffs and other helpful effects are excluded.

You don’t want Aeron, Grazul, etc. to prevent any negative effect, because they would be too powerful. Instead, they just block new status effects. Ursena and Mitsuko have a much more narrow effect, so they can have a more powerful focused block on just one color.

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Status effects = negative + positives effects. So this what I’m saying. The cards are wrong, either the update. Read again Ursena’s card. It says status effects. And if a status effect as mana cut may be blocked, then definitely may be prevented.

Makes sense

So what would you call a “mana cut”? A “direct effect”?

Other effects can also be negative or positive:

  • Direct damage and dispels are negative effects, but not status effects;
  • healing and cleanses are positive effects, but again not status effects.
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Alright so:

-reflects direct damage and “status ailments”
-blocks same turn “effects”(or direct effects, however it needs to be worded)

Which still to me doesnt make a ton of sense and complicates it more than it should be but simpler than making a new status effect and having to alter/explain/reword more than just 2 heroes

The cards should be plain enough that a player shouldnt have to do research to understand what they mean

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This is my last post on the subject because you and I see things different ways and I don’t think I can say more.

Mana cuts are NOT status effects. They decrease mana, but the hero is otherwise exactly the same at the end of the turn. There are no little icons as there are if you have a defense debuff, burn damage, etc.

Ursena as she stands in v25 blocks status effects, direct damage, and mana cuts

She reflects status effects and direct damage. She does not reflect mana cuts.

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