Understanding DoT (Damage over Time)


I find it interesting that we have proof the Devs were informed about scaling DOT with attack stat, but they never replied ( linky, linky ).

Cross posting here for future reference.

Based on the information in this thread I propose the following formula for DoT calculation:

  • DoT = hero‘s DoT factor x hero‘s attack value x (1 + troop attack bonus) x defense team bonus (round down the result)

and

  • DoT/turn = hero‘s DoT factor x hero‘s attack value x (1 + troop attack bonus) / DoT turns x defense team bonus (round down the result)

hero‘s DoT factor = the DoT factor of the hero
hero‘s attack value= the attack value from the hero card
troop attack bonus = the attack bonus from the hero‘s troops
DoT turns = the number of turns the DoT will be active
defense team bonus = 1.2 for the defending team, 1.0 for the attacking team

Example calculation for a maxed Azlar, no emblems, level 15 crit troops in the defending team:
DoT/turn = 0.456 x 793 Atk x (1 + 16%) / 6 turns x 1.2 = 83 damage /turn (=498 damage total)

The DoT factors then look approximately like this (sorted by DoT factor):

I found that the DoT factors are slightly lower for heroes that haven’t maxed their specials and that are not on their highest ascension level. Without those the curves look very linear (DoT/turn is used for better comparison of the various DoT heroes):


(“Azlar” data is from Azlar, Colen and Marjana; “GM” data is from Gravemaker and Jean-Francois)

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Hiya @Zack;

This formula you propose, did you test it for validity? like does it check-out?

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Hi Guvnor!

Yes, I did some tests. It’s now based on 160 values for the attacking team (card value or with troop during raid) and 27 values for the defending team. For each hero I have 1-16 DoT values.

For example, here’s Azlar:
grafik

Five DoT/turn values deviate by 1 point of damage, Locke’s two indicative values deviate by 0.25 and 0.5. The rest fits exactly. Here’s the comparison of actual values and calculated values, including a straight line for y=x:
grafik

As this fits so well, I went ahead with DoT factors for each of these heroes, despite having only 1 value for some of them (Jahangir, Nashgar, Hisan, Arman, Valeria, Kvasir, Cheshire Cat, Jabbar, Vlad)

I can get a little bit more data with my own Jahangir, Nashgar, Arman and Cheshire Cat, but the rest is hard to get.

Please test this formula yourself. Feedback on the performance of the DoT formula is very welcome. The DoT formula just seems too simple to be true when compared to the normal damage formula :laughing:

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I just figured this out for myself with Boril’s special. lol.

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The formula works nearly perfectly for me. The few minimal deviations probably come from different rounding and from slight differences to the actual DoT factors.

  • DoT/turn = hero‘s DoT factor x hero‘s attack value x (1 + troop attack bonus) / DoT turns x defense team bonus (round down the result)

All new data points matched well (in a few cases the DoT/turn still deviates by 1), and I adapted a few of the DOT factors due to more data points.
Sartana: from 0.426 → 0.4255
Tyr: from 0.259 → 0.26
Rumpelstiltskin: from 0.215 → 0.213
Rana and Yunan: from 0.55 → 0.549
Vlad: corrected from 0.165 / 0.315 / 0.8 → 0.18 / 0.32 / 0.802

With the new costumes the overview looks like this

The table is now based on 335 data points.
Lady Locke: 6 attack data / 1 defense data
Natalya: 5 / 4
Morgan: 7 / 2
Yunan: 4 / 0
Rana: 8 / 1
Kelile: 11 / 0
Azlar costume: 1 / 0
Proteus: 15 / 1
Azlar: 14 / 10
Colen: 15 / 1
Marjana: 17 / 15
Sartana: 12 / 20
Cheshire Cat: 4 / 0
Domitia costume: 1 / 0
Gravemaker: 14 / 13
Jean-Francois: 11 / 4
Gafar: 3 / 0
Jabbar: 1 / 0
Jabberwock: 10 / 1
Clarissa: 12 / 2
Vela: 15 / 15
Tyr: 7 / 2
Nashgar: 3 / 0
Layla: 6 / 0
Jahangir: 4 / 0
Oberon: 5 / 0
Rumpelstiltskin: 7 / 0
Hisan: 3 / 0
Arman: 4 / 0
Balthazar costume: 1 / 0
Karil costume: 1 / 0
Kvasir: 5 / 0
Vlad: 3 / 0
Valeria: 1 / 0
Victor: 6 / 1

Was Morgan’s DoT boosted recently? Today I found that she was pushed from a DoT factor of 0.94 to 0.96. For 731 ATK her DoT went from 684 to 700. For 746 ATK her DoT went from 700 to 716.
→ Her card should indicate a DoT of 684 now for the regular maximum 4-80 (previously 672)

Can somebody please verify this?

At 3.70 I have her at 576 DoT on 602 attack, for factor of .9568

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Thank you for checking!
The 576 DoT at 602 ATK fits with a factor of 0.96 as well, so I’ll keep the 0.96 for the time being.

My guess is that Morgan was improved with the recent balancing of Telluria and other heroes, but wasn’t mentioned in the list of re-balanced heroes.

Are DoTs and HoTs influenced by family bonuses that add to attack?

Edit. Read post 80 by @Zack which has new evidence on what happens with family bonus. This post here appears obsolete.

As for DoT, it should but only for families that give a bonus to the attack stat. For Pirates it should work but I don’t have a DoT hero to test (they exist though). I don’t believe any other families have a bonus to the attack stat and a DoT hero.

As for HoT, you’re off topic :grin:. Seriously, The one that could apply is the Guardians Bonus as it affects healing. I did a test to validate. Unfortunately, I put in troops that make this example a bit more confusing but you can see it.

Refer to the picture below. Melander gives HoT of 203. You see though that Melander actually gets 239 as he has a level 21 mana troop which gives a bonus 18% healing. Killhare gets 235 as her troop only gives a 16% bonus. Now, jackal and falcon have similar troops with an 18% bonus but they get 253. This is an additional 6% family bonus. Lastly, bat gets 215 and does not have a mana troop. So he only gets the 6% of 203. I note that it appears to truncate the decimal and doesn’t round.

But again. HoT is off topic! :joy::rofl::joy::rofl:

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But healing is just negative damage, so they’re the same thing. Therefore you are on topic. :wink:

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As a mathematician I like this point of view…

BUT

Damage over time is calculated by attack value and increases by raising the attack value. There is no such thing for Heal over time.

So it is still different.

Whether different or not, I still answered the question. :man_shrugging:

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Finally I found a team in raid with DoT and family bonus that cooperated with a test.

Result: family attack bonus doesn’t increase DoT

Lady Locke with +32 attack from pirate family bonus (from Sargasso).


Her DoT description uses the normal, troop boosted attack of 1072 and gives the corresponding 1388.

DoT = 1.08 x 1072 x 1.2 = 1388

If the 3% family bonus would work for the DoT, it would be
DoT = 1.08 x 1072 x 1.03 x 1.2 = 1428

So much for theory, but what happens really during a battle?

The indicated DoT damages were correctly applied - I checked Kingston’s HP with the incoming slash attacks, HoT and DoT.

Locke’s 4-turn DoT did 195, 273, 383 and then 536, for a total of 1387.
=> the family attack bonus does not apply to the DoT

The other similar situation is with Rumpelstiltskin and it seems to be same (unfortunately, this one didn’t use his DoT):

DoT = 0.213 x 961 x 1 = 204

=> it looks like poor Rumpel doesn’t even get the 20% defender bonus

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I have done some maths this weekend. Could it be that DoT doesn’t increase in attack boost wars as well?

That I bet is correct (though I didn’t validate it). Because attack boost is like a special skill and DoT does not go up if you have an increased attack special on, say Boldtusk. It should be based on those that affect the base stat pre-attack, like talents and troops. I’m actually surprised family bonus is not affected - that almost seems like a bug.

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What is the actual math to calculate DoT? How much DoT do you gain for 15 attack?

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This is different for any character and can not be answered in general.
Example: +15 attack
Colen +1 burn damage per round
Proteus +2 poison damage per round

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Thank you for this. I know it now but when I started i thought it was a bug too. I know there’s explanations in other threads but maybe you could do a detailed write up on mana boosts and troops.

Found a Rumpelstiltskin with family bonus and got him to use his DoT:

This Rumpelstiltskin has 938 ATK and even 966 ATk with his family bonus. The description indicates 198 poison DoT over 3 turns, which is 66 DoT/turn.

He actually did 79 DoT/turn, i.e. 237 DoT, as can be seen in the screenshots.

Let’s see:
family bonus: DoT = 0.213 x 966 x 1.2 = 246 (= 3x 82/turn)
no family bonus: DoT = 0.213 x 938 x 1.2 = 237 (= 3x 79/turn)
no family + no defender bonus: DoT = 0.213 x 938 x 1 = 198 (= 3x 66/turn)

=> Rumpel gets the 20% defender bonus
=> Rumpel doesn’t get the family attack bonus, just like Locke
=> Rumpel’s description during battle is bugged and doesn’t include the 20% defender bonus

Since permanent attack bonuses increase the DoT (and temporary attack bonuses don’t), it really seems like a bug that the family bonus doesn’t

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