Holy crap I thought I changed this…yes, lets delete this topic devs/mods. Thanks to making this thread I got some great feedback on how and why raids work the way they do. Now that developers include an indicator that tells why you might win and what you might lose before you enter a raid, there should be nothing else to discuss. I think the developers handled the issue in the best way possible…more information. Great guys!
I’m sure you’re a delightful person, Megalodon, but that’s a silly idea. Run it as a thought experiment in your head: see how it introduces an incentive to attack players who are weaker than you, when currently there is an incentive to attack players who are stronger than you? Perhaps you want an incentive to attack players who are weaker than you. I don’t.
Why is there a ‘like’ button, but no ‘dislike’ button? Why can I like someone’s idea just by pressing a button, but whenever I dislike an idea I have to post, and then people get all sensitive and offended and decide I must hate them, not just their suggestion? Here’s an emoji.
(BTW, you already know how many trophies are at risk before a battle. If a player has fewer trophies than you, then the most you will lose is about 52, and the least you will win is about 8. If a player has more trophies than you, then flip those numbers. If you’re close to the same number of trophies to begin, then the award or penalty will be in the range of 20-30 trophies.)
Well the way the algorithm is set up based on your team power and how many trophies you have you are only going to be given options to hit players with in your team power range. When you go to Raids you are only allowed to hit a very select lower number than yourself. Example I am at a team power of 2300, I will never see a any team power below 1900…EVER! Re-Roll as I may, I will get mostly 2000+ or way above 2400+. A 1950, that’s blue moon event. Developers did a good job of setting that up. It prevents higher team powered players like me from hitting team powers of 1000 or below. I’ll never see an 800 or 600 and like I said, ever since I made it 2300 team power, my days of fighting the teens are long gone.
The big problem I am after is how when you lose a raid you lose BIG like 45 cups BIG. But when I win I only get 15 cups? BTW this has been against players with the same 1700 cup count as me. I mean, whatever, I’m not a big trophy collector guy and it’s this type of unbalance between what you win and what you lose that made me not care about raids anymore. I will never be one to say “It’s not fair” all I am saying is that if a solid percentage all across the board was used to determine how many cups/trophies are earned…it might bring me back to collecting trophies again.
Oh and we don’t need a button that says dislike. If you dislike what I have to say or introduce you need to stand by your thumbs down and explain yourself. Dev’s don’t change a thing. This is good.
You’re right, but given all the advantages attackers have, you should only ever be attacking players considerably stronger than you. (Trophies are a much better measure than ‘team power’, which is often misleading.) If you are attacking a 2200 then you’re punching a long way down, and I assume they will have fewer trophies than you. Thus, if you win you’ll get 15-ish, and if you lose you’ll lose 40-ish. That’s fair.
If you want to win 40+ trophies for your attack, you need to target players with more trophies than you - ideally lots more. ‘Team power’ is not particularly relevant, but theirs will often be higher than yours.
My team power is about 3100 and my trophy equilibrium is about 2500-2600. To win 40-50 and lose 10-15 from each raid, I try only to attack players with 100 or so trophies more than me at the time of my attack. Their team power is usually in the range of 3500-4200. This is a successful strategy - I win more than I lose and I get lots of trophies awarded to me.
You can’t actually ‘collect’ trophies in the sense of accumulating them. If you get more than your team’s power really warrants, other players will attack you and take them away until you are back near your equilibrium level. I think people fail to understand this.
Fair enough: I’m happy to set out my criticisms. You seem happy to read them without taking offence. We’re a perfect pair.
Well it never matters if I am attacking someone who’s team power is higher than mine by 200 or lower than mine by 200, it is always the same…somewhere around 15 cups I get. If I lose to either I’m losing 30 to 45 cups. Believe me, there are still teams with lower team power than mine who will always win. Anyone with a Blessed Brew is always going to win if they have another healer with them. I tend to avoid Blessed Brew guy at all costs LOL. But I can’t wait to actually get him!
When my team power was at 2200 there was one time I lucked out and re-rolled to a team with only 1420 team power, I beat that team and I saw for the first time ever around 40 cups.
I’m suggesting that you forget about ‘team power’ completely. It is horrifically misleading.
You know that the annoying dwarf with blessed brew can be poison to you, right? I know that I struggle with Boldtusk, if he is paired with a particular purple sniper, because I need both good planning and good luck to beat them. The ‘team power’ number accounts for none of this. Good teams can have a low ‘team power’ number, and bad teams can have a high number - you’re smart enough to know the difference.
So forget about ‘team power’, and instead attack based on trophies alone. I promise you that if you attack only players with 100 trophies more than you, then you will be awarded 35-52 tokens for each win, and will be penalised 8-20 tokens for each loss.
I might not be right about this but so far, despite some people voicing gut objections, there has not been very much evidence presented to suggest that the theory is incorrect.
(I should give credit here to the one person who did present a convincing objection, but I can’t remember how to spell his handle right. Come in and take your own credit: you’re making me think hard about the mechanics of it all.)
(Edit: it was @dafrca who saw some evidence that raiders with more trophies than him were getting big rewards. I haven’t been able to duplicate his experience yet.)
Nah, team power is not miss leading at all! If you are dealing with a team power higher than you, there is a reason they have a high team power, its because their heroes have higher scores. Yes there are cases when a lower team power was more powerful. Blessed Brew and Boldtusk (I got that guy) are not fun to deal with. Spirit Links used to be the same way until someone whined over that being not fair. But over all team power plays a huge marker. I never base a team on its cups. That team can earn and lose cups in a minute. Not a good way to measure for how powerful a team is.
BTW what Purple sniper do you speak of, Brobb?
I don’t want the devs to change trophies so much as explain it. Once I fully understand how the system works and why, I’ll be much happier.
Right now I’m guessing (and it seems to work, but I know it’s a guess which bothers me)…
Sartana is the purple sniper that I hate. I looked her up because you asked and I might love you.
You’re mostly wrong, though. Yes, ‘team power’ is a marker, but it’s a very bad one. A team with no healers can have a very high team power and still be an easy victim. A team made up entirely of healers can have a very high team power and still be an easy victim. The sum of a team’s heroes is a poor representation of that team’s actual power.
And yes, trophies can be a little misleading at times. A team’s trophies can be inflated or deflated by 300 or 400 depending on the time of day alone, but they will never vary much more than that from the equilibrium point, because the system is self-correcting.
Attack based on trophies, not ‘team power’. Target only players with 100 or so trophies more than you. Thank me later.
This has been my experience as well. I can tell when I have hit a wall so to speak until I level up my team, then I begin to grow again.
@dafrca is like me if I was both considerably more clever and considerably more polite than I actually am.
I did some more playing around with this. If I understand you correctly if I am going after someone with significantly more cups than me then I would be getting more of those cups? That might explain the irregularities. I keep going after higher powered teams but because these teams are more likely to have the same cup count as me, I get like 15 cups when I win. Where as when I am sleeping and teams take my cups they have been serious cup hunters and they have significantly more cups than me and thus take more of my cups. If that is the case, I totally get it.
I think you’re onto it, yes. If you’re raiding players with fewer cups than you, you’ll only be rewarded with, say, 15 when you win.
Then when you’re sleeping, players with fewer cups than you raid, and if they win they get big rewards - say, 45. Of course, when you wake up in the morning and look at them, they no longer have fewer cups than you. They have more, because they’ve won lots and you’ve lost lots.
(Those are the guys you should attack, btw. They used to have fewer cups than you, so you know they’re not miles stronger than you. But now they have more cups, so you’ll be well rewarded if you beat them.)
You know what, I’m good. I think I will close this thread soon. Thanks Brobb
Seven_Days_Departed has put up a raiding tutorial for people to check out!
I think it’s very helpful that Small Giant put that nice little bar that now tells you EXACTLY how many cups you will win or lose if you attack x person:
This is all I needed to understand the existing cup system.
This update is awesome!