Time for me to go & my parting feedback

Since I’m one of the people who tend to come around the forums and write long posts, it’s only fitting that I should write one when going away.

Funnily enough, I quit the game one week before the Season 2 hit beta, but my reasons are such, that it doesn’t change a thing :yum:

First of all, I want to give a shoutout to my alliance - King of the North - as without these guys, I’d be gone about 6-8 months ago. If they ever have another opening and look for a new soul, I cannot recommend them enough! :unicorn:

But, in the end, even the coolest “guild”, cannot keep me playing a game that’s lost all of its charm to me and doesn’t offer me a sense of accomplishment/progression/whatever. The simply put: fun.

I’ve played E&P for pretty much exactly one year. There were times I liked it more, there were times I liked it less, but in the end, the bad won and I’ve decided to quit. Hence this post and my parting feedback/rant. I wish the game wasn’t like that and that I’d actually feel like staying, but honestly? Even the news of season 2 don’t make me want to boot it anymore. Not even the beta to check things out.

So, if you don’t care about another rant post, you can stop reading here. As from now on, it’s probably going to be just that. If you thrive on rants and complaints (perhaps hoping that they can, eventually, lead to changes in games) then go right ahead.

For all of you who continue on playing, but have similar beefs with the game, I hope it gets better for your sake.


1. Competitive Aspects of E&P

I am a competitive player by nature. I don’t usually enjoy a casual play just to click things and watch things happen - not in games that involve rankings and multiplayer. If I want to play a game to do that, I pick one where there is no competitive element and it’s all based on in-game mechanics and pre-set challenges.

E&P is a game that involves competitive aspects - raids ladder being one that’s basically irrelevant (too fleeting), and challenge events being one that could be something to look forward for a player like myself.

But here’s the problem - if you don’t pay in this game, you cannot, and will not, be able to compete on the highest level. There are heroes you need to do that in the later 2 levels, and there are energy refills in Beginner. Since the boards are so luck based (and the person who won Beginner before said they did score so high on the last level due to an amazing board), it requires a lot of retrying, which costs energy. When I pushed for top 10 in intermediate, I was basically opening a level and if in 3 moves it didn’t turn right I quit it and replayed. That severely limits item usage, but to what end?

With 36 flasks accumulated over 3 months I was able to reach #8. If I got knocked out of top 10 that time I’d probably feed Elkanen to Leonidas for ultimate saltiness (it was before Leo’s buff).

But I know that without refills, Falcon, Jackal, I could never compete for #1. I’d need more luck and more skill than anyone with the right composition. And that’s not a fair competition, simply put. Not to mention, without refills, my luck-factor is severely gimped and I do not think my skill is superior to the top players. Could I reach their level? Maybe. I will never find out. Because even if I did, I’d never climb to their level to know, as my hero stable is subpar, and my compositions are limited.

And that kills all the joy from competing for me. So with little to no novelty in the game (most days are just farming on autoplay mindlessly and hitting the titan), the only remaining thing was the social factor and getting better as an alliance. Before I left, we reached top 10, visited top 5 on several occassions.

But though I could pretty much keep up with my alliance mates on titans and AW, let’s be honest - with my heroes and limited items all I could do was try not to weigh them down and place in top 15 as often as possible, not actually compete anywhere for anything.

Raids-wise, I’ve written a whole big chunk of a post in the suggestions category. No need to add much there.

This, the non-existent competitive integrity due to monetary factors, is one of the main reasons why the game lost its appeal to me.

Was I a dummy expecting anything else? Maybe. But I thought that patience and SH20 will eventually open the door that’s locked behind the pay wall. It took some time to see just how much wider the gap between the HotM/event heroes and regular heroes grew. And it keeps on growing.

Then again, running two SH20s over 5 months (and 1 SH20 for 1 at first ) yielded me two 5* heroes. Coins, gems, and occasional purchases in the first half of the year I’ve played, gave me 2 others. By the time I had SH20 up, I had all the 4* heroes (aside of Caed) already owned. So yeah.

2. The perceived greed of the devs

Look, I get it. It’s a business. The devs need to make money. But it feels to me as though nothing else matters anymore in E&P. And that’s where the problem begins. In my eyes. You don’t have to agree, duh.

From what I’m hearing, E&P is a popular game, and when I hear about the amounts of money people spend on it (and consider that a huge chunk of players spends 5$ every here or there too). That means that perhaps they do not need to milk the cow till the udders are sore.

But they do.

% Avatar shop & seasonal calendars

I said it in some other post. This should’ve been around a long time and when it finally hit I thought - hey, maybe this is the way for the devs to move a little towards equalizing P2W and F2P models in the game? I mean, way bigger games than E&P with way bigger and more demanding servers live entirely off cosmetics.

“Oh, sweet summer child”, I said to myself when soon after that we got another seasonal calendar where the free days didn’t even contain a single gold token.

Speaking of seasonal calendars. Those things are yet another sign of the game pretty much sprinting in the direction of becoming P2W. Ascension items used to be the one thing that halted the widening of these gaps, and while I think they should’ve been more common, now they’re only more common to the paying customers. Once every 3 months you can fork out a nice bit of cash to get every ascension item reliably. On top of that, of course, there are multiple special offers that seem to increase in frequency.

While Elemental Chests, available to F2P players, were nerfed. Hard. I know devs said they weren’t many times, but seriously? First half the year, each chest contained three gold tokens/troop tokens. The second half, seeing 1 was a treat. Not to mention low ratio of 4* items and prevalence of farmable garbage in ascension item slots.

Setting non-farmable items as 4* and 5* and leaving boots/tomes/chainmails as 3* would make it much more fair.

But by now, I doubt fair is the name of the game here.

% Loot tickets & Fast Lane packs

Honestly? The most disgusting idea for me here.

For a long time players were complaining about having to mindlessly grind the early levels. Rinse and repeat, click “replay”, wait 2 minutes, click “replay”. RI-VE-TING gameplay if I’ve ever seen one. It’s fine for a short while, but after months of doing that it becomes an absolute pest of a mechanic.

So players wanted a way to skip levels that their team can comfortably deal with and just get the rewards if they have nothing better to do with their energy.

What did devs do?

They implemented it. And then made it cost money. And then stuffed it into “special offer” pack, too.

I… no. Just no. It’s just lame in my eyes. Very, very lame. Farming mindlessly is a bad mechanic. They have a fix, a nice, nifty fix that could make the game as a whole more enjoyable, less tiresome, and more dynamic for long-time players who are sick of this part of it. But see, they didn’t want to improve the game. Let it advance, become better, give players a choice in how they want to play it.

They decided to just make money instead.

% Forum Moderation
I’ve noted it in another topic, and I know Rook doesn’t agree, but I still think that using players to moderate the forums with no pay is scummy at this point. I rarely ever see a developer answering player questions on the forums. It’s always Rook. She does a wonderful job, but this should, yep, be an actual job for a paid employee. Like most bigger companies have. A player shouldn’t be tasked with translating posts and responding to technical issues, pasting directions, etc. Kudos to Rook for wanting to do it, but I don’t think it’s right.

A player-mod on a forum of a game that rakes in serious cash should run around merging topics, solving silly dramas, fixing pictures in posts and whatever else is fun, light and not demanding a lot of time.

That’s all.

3. The burnout
Many games are repetitive. Many games are grindy. There are games that are based on grinding endlessly (Diablo), there are games based on idling (Idle Miner, Cookie Clicker). E&P has pleasant graphics, pleasant mechanics, the whole leveling-of-heroes system is all fine and dandy, it makes for an overall nice experience, which is why the game is popular, and why I played it in the first place. And why I’m a little sad about the other things.

But burnout becomes a real thing, when big events are turned to hassle with little to no reward. Grind must be rewarding. And going out of one’s way to do something better, should definitely feel like a victory.

The biggest culprits here are the non-progression of the raiding system (again - talked about it in the Suggestion topic) and Alliance Wars.

AW is just too frequent for what it is. If an alliance wants to win a war, they likely have to strategize, coordinate, all that. And that’s great. I like that.

In theory.

When it happens twice a week and victory rewards are what they are, it becomes an underwhelming commonplace that’s hardly worth the hassle.

First wars were fun. New ideas, new tactics. On top of that I had folks in my alliance that were into it and made the whole shebang an interesting affair (cheers, Yo Momma :wink: ). And so first victories were also nice.

But then? Then it became “oh another war”, “okay we won”, “ok new small pack of items I will never notice I got”.

For goodness’ sake. What I’d like?

  • make the war an actual EVENT. Maximum once a week. Maybe once every two weeks. Let it last 3 days in the 2nd case even, why not.
  • make the win rewards something special - a nice LARGE influx of battle items/crafting items, make it VISIBLE and SHINY. Add a guaranteed troop token (gods know you need a bajillion of those to get anywhere anyway but at least they look good), 5 dragon bones, 1 of each 4* battle items, just SOMETHING that’s eye-catching and makes you go “hey, JUICY, let’s do our best to win the next one!”
  • and, last but not least, do not introduce a PvP-bound system when you don’t have a ladder in place or some scoring system… :man_facepalming:

4. Player suggestions

Do you know that topic that comes back around these parts every now and then?
It’s called “Proposal - New Building: Alchemy Lab”

That topic has 155 player votes. It was posted in the June of 2017. It’s THE single, most requested feature around, liked by more players than we normally see on these forums.

And yet. No alchemy lab. Is it coming with Season 2 patch? I don’t know, I haven’t checked. But I don’t believe it would take such immense resources that devs couldn’t make it happen in a year.

I mean, what is the suggestions forum even for? So that people can rant their hearts out and not write SG e-mails with their suggestions? :rofl: Cause apparently not for suggestions that can make it into the game if they are well-thought out and liked by the fellow players.

Yet again - lame. What can I say.


Maybe that’s all, maybe not. I may or may not edit this post to add stuff, may or may not comment under it.

But I want to finish on a brighter note. So, once more, I want to thank my alliance mates for making this game so much better.

Special shoutouts to @Julia, our fearless leader who brought our alliance to its current glory and always looked out for everyone’s happiness, @Epigenetic, our event-refiner and overall one of the most pleasant fellows around, @Resol who never failed to produce some life in chats in game and LINE (I still don’t think Alberich should be buffed :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:), Tombomb, who was one of the first people in the game I chatted with (about trains), @Eddard, without whom we wouldn’t be exposed to such exquisite SFW nudes, @Otto0000 Luran (Censure, is that your forum account?), who never failed to throw a nice word my way and always made us (as an alliance) feel appreciated, Himoro, who was always eager to help the alliance prosper, Lucy, who left the alliance a while ago to chill out elsewhere, but before that spread her energy and optimism all around, Ornery, who’s sense of humor is just on my wavelengths, and Elianoor, my mom who got me into this game in the first place and with whom we played together :blush:

I hope I haven’t forgotten anyone. It’s a long post, so forgive me if I have! Much love to all of you.

I also want to thank @Rook for making the stay on the forums pleasant. Been a pleasure interacting with you.


Would I leave I could not point out in a better way the rising faults of this game.
Thank you @Ellilea for your time and your energy into writing it, for something you are leaving.
It’s from the coming out of loot tickets that I started to be troubled (as one could be of a game he likes) about the narrowing of free resources and how any request from players was turned into something sold with gems(=money) from developers. So Chapter 2 of your post gets my full thumbs up!

@Petri and you all of the staff should read it carefully AND do something, because when you lose players like @Ellilea you lose a consistent slice of your public.
Hope @Ellilea hasn’t wasted her time writing this post, and I myself mine replying.


This is a really great post. I have run into the same walls on events being limited by not being able to purchase refills… I got to 18th in rare last event without spending a dime… and also trying to keep up in an alliance I like as spenders zoom zoom and push the pace beyond what I’m able to do.

Anyway I really appreciate your post. Those are the 2 things I resonated most with but you speak genuine truth all over. Thank you


@ellilea farewell and have a safe journey. We’ll handle it the best we can here at KOTN. You will be missed. @ellilea @petri And Alberich do need a buff like a always active fire protection skill. All these fire heroes burning through him.

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Great piece of post. Worth reading it. Thx for that. A pity it brought you to quit.


oh i completely agree with you @Ellilea everything what you wrote in your post. iS like the developers met and say today lets implement this thing in the game, but hey we are not stupid let’s make them pay for it why we should give anything for free.Lately the greed become so obvious that they started selling packages for 10000 gems. Why the hell would you buy tokens for gems since you cannot use the tokens for elemental summon only for normal summon? The moment of quit is also very close for me if this is the direction of the game. No worth of spending money on it.


@Ellilea First of all, I’m very sorry to see you go, as I’ve always enjoyed your knowledge of the game, your eagerness to help others, and outgoing personality!
Many of the things you mentioned , resonate with lots of us, especially myself! I’m starting to head that way too, as I noticed the same things in a F2P account I own…it’s very frustrating as the items are not coming as easy as it used to, and the free tokens that we used to get from calendars and such, are no longer available as the Devs have nerfed pretty much the loot in all the chests and titan, AW and even the monthly challenge.
Also, trying to nerf already owned heroes so the new heroes become more appealing, is a hit below the belt…as we’ve already invested in our roster and those heroes becoming weak and useless, will lead you to either invest more or quit. Tho month of August was the month when I had decided it’s time to stop wasting my money on a game that it’s going downhill!
I agree with your suggestions about the AW and rewards!! I hope the Devs are reading this and do something about it…hopefully that will bring you back :slight_smile:


I hope my parting post is half as good as yours, and believe me, there WILL be a parting post (maybe, at some point) if they don’t address some of the issues that plague the game… Happy trails !


Awww no! I always loved to read your posts in the forum and many of your sugestions and ideas, was brilliant!

I fully agree on you with the event part, i just play them once, for the small rewards, but that‘s it. In my eyes, not worth to put in, so much time, energy and items and at the end you always see the same players in that ranking.

I‘m not jealous, i‘m sure can do on myself, but i do not want. This pricepool needs a overhaul, like something i wrote in a other post and yeah, my english is not good enough, otherwise i would introduce that more. But at the end, nothing will change in this events.

For the AW. This feature got on my nerves, happy 6 free flags to learn alot about strategy and how to play PVP, nothing more.

I really wish you the best, sad we never met in game (i rarely change the language from german to english).


I know games are relatively short-term for players, but I still hate to say goodbye.

You consistently made intelligent, well-thought out posts and suggestions that were a joy to read. I will miss you. :confused:

Thanks for the reminders of what could be different, including the Alchemy Lab.

If you change your mind, we’ll all be here waiting for you! :wink:


Exactly my thoughts. Thank you for writing them down because I’m not able to with my basic english skills. This is what I wrote down yesterday in another thread:
“I think a game is boring when you compete in it with others and the winner is who spends the biggest amount of money. I saw all new coming heroes and I know, that I’m not able to get one of them. Maybe I’m lucky like with Zeline but am I that lucky? I can’t level her fully since february and I don’t know how long I have to wait from now on. I don’t know how long I have been playing in platin. I’m not able with my current heroes to get in the diamond league. I can’t level a single 5* hero. The lesson is clear: don’t spend money on this game, not even when you have money or don’t you want a fair competition? Is this game just about getting heroes? I want nice people to play with, I want a fair fight against other players and I want the chance to become number one with knowledge and tactic. Sell your avatars, sell skins, pins, backgrounds and whatever but don’t sell victory.”

My biggest problem is 1. stagnation, 2. boredom and 3. abscence of fair competition.

What can you do about it SG?

  1. nobody, not even f2p should have to wait a year to level a single 5* hero. Five 4* mats for any color are to less in 11 months.
  2. Like Ellilea said, we don’t want to farm all day long, it’s boring. I have 48 loot tickets and didn’t used one. Take them back and give us the option to farm levels in which we can win. If we would lose, we also lose with autofarm.
  3. This is tough. I do not really have an idea to solve this problem. We need a healthy balance between f2p and p2w.

I can see how these things can wear on you after sometime. I’m still at a point where I am enjoying the game alongside my frustrations. My hope is that I get to experience, during the time I am playing, a smoother play.

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Very well thought out post. I just don’t think their investors will allow them to go easier on us. Games have a shelf life, and devs squeeze harder near the end. I have noticed that as things have become more available for money, they have become less available through grinding.

Personally, I’ve almost reached a point where I have my 30 heroes plus extras, and I’m not interested in replacing them in season 2. I have what I have, and it’s good enough. My future draws will be predicated on “do I already have the materials to ascend a hero.” Combine that with I won’t have heroes to buy materials for, and the drops will have to come from grinding. Let’s see how that goes.


Farewell. I skimmed your post. Hard to argue with any of what I read. I hope retirement treats you well.

And please check out Uniwar if you have even the vaguest sense of interest in turn based strategy games. Been playing for 2+ years and the community and strategic depth always keep me interested

See ya around

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@Petri @Petri @Petri How many more awesome players do you guys intend to lose!!?


If a game losing players means the game or the team making it is flawed, then there has never been anything but flawed games in existence. Ever.

In other words, players drifting off to other games is completely natural and happens to every game there is, and ever will be. It’s NOT the sole indicator of how healthy the game is.


you obviously didnt take the time to read through the OP’s post… which I agree with on the whole. anyhoo, just my two cents, not here for a debate about it!


Thank you for mentioning me @Ellilea :slight_smile:

Your leaving is our loss, like @Resol said. We will see how we can compensate the space. I agree with a lot of points and I think it’s wise you didn’t check beta. It looks like the new content will lead to your mentioned points - exponentially.

At least I wish you good times and good luck :wink:


What a great post. I don’t write much, but your effort towards the game and the community you are leaving deserves a reply. Thank you!


@Ellilea, I don’t consider your post a rant in the slightest, I consider it an expression. In business one unhappy customer is equal to 100’s. Most will say nothing & leave. You didn’t do that. Instead you left by doing a service to your fellow players. Your expression reflects the feelings of thousands of players. Muchly respected.
I’ve been kicked off the forums just for expressing my feelings on the game, yes, I can be a little hard hitting at times, it seemed they only want cheer for mediocrity in a game where so many players are getting angry & frustrated. This is my 1st reply in nearly 3 months of no longer caring.

We’ve lost too many alliance members, & I’m getting tired of trying to convince players not to quit. Because when they quit our team gets weeker & then we fall back to where we started. They just can’t get anywhere with the laughable & stingy loot for effort put in. I’ve been playing for nearly a year & I still can’t get one 5* hero fully leveled, I use everthing I’ve got to get a hotm & all I get is 3* over & over again, that’s inhumane.
War “VİCTORY LOOT?”, …“Rare Titan loot?”, how can nobody in your alliance get the item after all that effort?? NO-BODY??
Raids, I dont even wanna go there.

Look. Thanks for expressing yourself, I hate it when ppl just leave & don’t say why.

I myself am also thinking about leaving the game & ending my torture, cause that’s what it is now, it’s no longer entertainment.

For what it’s worth, I wish you all the best.


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