This game's entire PVP has become a "Guess the Starting Board" contest and it's NOT OKAY

That’s not what the OP meant,. She clearly didn’t want this to turn into a discussion of Rainbow vs. Color-stacking strategies.

I don’t understand the second part. Are you saying that a new player can level up and emblem 10-15 random heroes to use in offensive stacks, as easily as that same player can level up and emblem 5 defense-oriented heroes to use in a rainbow defense?

A quick perusal of the original post can confirm what the OP meant.

Please stay on topic, y’all. :wink::+1:


Small and Giants don’t care what we think or think about the game … if the money goes into their account they are satisfied. The game is unbalanced and 80% of players know it as well as they know it themselves … but if the money comes in they pretend to be blind.
Until they feel a considerable loss of gain they will not stop and give the attention we deserve.
I do not understand how a draw for “Legends” only heroes of 3 * come out.
They have the sinism to say we have better luck next time.
Another point is: strategy is not decided on luck but on studying the opponent and executing the best strategy. Empires and Puzzles is TOTALLY decided by the I.A. “humor” therefore, the game must be removed from the strategy and RPG area.
I am contacting some friends in order to file a lawsuit against Small and Giants under the term of misleading advertising and extortion. Recently, there was a gaming company that had to refund the entire amount and pay a fine due to these terms.
We should all look for that. If we keep accepting what they want, the game will never change.


I don’t think they gave it too much thought initially. I think it was rather a “but what if a player doesn’t take one element to the fight?” - “well, they don’t deal damage of that element” - “but that places them at disadvantage, we need to compensate” - “well, so let’s make it that the damage stacks”. That’s it. Note that the mechanics is from ancient times and I don’t think it ever changed.

Why I think it was a default way to play the game? 1. There’s 5 elements and 5 hero spots. 2. It’s a bit counterintuitive at first when tile of non-used element deals no damage; it’s making certain matches on the board useless, a bit strange for something that is a 3-match game. At least I was very surprised to discover that when I did it first time. For matches not to be empty and useless you need to bring rainbow. 3. Classic heroes (which were the only heroes available when the mechanics were created) did not have healers of all colors, tanks of all colors etc. Colors’ specifics were rather thematic (and kinda still are) with fire heroes bringing more attack buffs and dot, yellow bringing blind, green bringing attack debuff etc. Meaning you needed to balance them to cover all the functions. 4. Fighting with rainbow makes the matches longer. Longer matches are essential to bringing out strategy elements out of this game. It allows slow and very slow heroes to fire, it allows to work on your timings, and it doesn’t mean that if your heroes finally charged up likely the tiles already won you the match. Stacking makes this game binary - either banging your head against the wall until you die or you make enemy heroes explode like popcorn. It doesn’t feel like the game is meant to play like that. Of course noone forces using rainbow, but my original point was that the longer matches that result from rainbow currently place defense at unfair advantage somehow. So the matches tend to be longer (because you can fire a healer, or attack debuffer etc as opposed to no-tile stack fights), but you still lose because without tile damage from stack you just can’t get through.

Of course it’s just my assumption and ‘feel’ I get from the game. If we were to argue over that point, I think there are also solid counterarguments to that point (existance of elemental defense debuffers or elemental links).

Generally I don’t think they gave the mechanics too much thought because they couldn’t foresee how this game would progress and grow. Problem is we still play the game by these old rules even though it is much different from what it used to be.

I didn’t want that indeed :wink: although that’s good to see the discussion going. I am am him, btw :wink:


Thank you for correcting me, no offense meant. It’s a habit of mine now using “she” whenever uncertain.

While here, I meant no offense to @Rigs either, I didn’t even name anyone.

Elemental link is not available to many players due to merciless RNG.

Basic color stacking works with dead heroes ( grave damage) so most often used by players stuck with 3* heroes.

Troops, especially 3* / 4* troops, are very powerful at level 1. Before Barracks, no player could level troops.

see also

([Primer] Your first 4* team or Intro to getting 3*/ 4* Heroes, leveling, picking, farming, double color and war ( Part 2 ))

([Guide] “Rage Quit and back again” or How I learned to stop worrying (about 5* s) and Love the 4* s ( told in links )[ 1- 16 months, Manual, Road map])

([Play style] Investment, Diminishing returns, Matchmaking, summons, and limited paths or Playing Empires when you have 5285 finished heroes in Extra low cost training)

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Agreed, every good team has Telluria as tank and many Valeria. I can beat them with my all red team usually but it’s just getting boring using the same red team to fight Telluria over and over. Telluria’s defense is just way too high, the downgrade adjustment made to her makes almost no difference. Her defense needs to be brought down. I say this as someone who has Telluria too.

I feel the biggest problem is that an unfavourable opening board should be given more of a chance of recovering from.

I think one way to do this is to increase base HP across all heroes (and reduce/tweak healing to minimise chance of stalemate!) Gives you time to try to work the board. Means you only lose (badly) if you get really, really bad RNG for multiple turns, or your skills in hero selection or board manipulation just aren’t good enough. Losing a close fight is something we can (should) all accept, especially when it is over a long and likely epic battle. Of course that is the downside… battles will take longer. And not sure how this would affect PvM… obviously would require a huge revamp lol.

Or… perhaps SGG need to have a new way of generating opening boards. Ensure there is a minimum number of each colour. We play with a 7x5 grid, so they could do 7 of each colour evenly. But I think less is better, say 4 or 5. Make the darn game an actual puzzle to solve.


I mean, u guys really complain about telly vela gravemaker? What do u expect, when u can basically buy any Hero in the Game, when u want to, there is no Diversity, thats the Issue, These days it might be GVT, next Generation, other nice synergy appears and get chased by the “tryhards”. And when a Defense has a good synergy, of course people “abuse” it. To change that there need to be a Element which is not static, so same Heroes can go Different ways and Players can “tune” them like they want.

well if that happens then i am expecting another #nospend and #nonerf lol

One of the main reasons this is an issue now more than ever is emblems and the way it currently works.

It should have been something as simple as the costume bonus and doesn’t require ridiculous resources to reassign or just be 10 nodes instead of 20.

There are still ways to balance it properly.

Having it the way it is now is not helping players trying new defences for raids and wars as it is very costly (time AND resources) to just move emblems from one hero to another.

This highly needs to be addressed for more balance and game verity!

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OMG I love you! EVERY team has Telly and / or
Vela! Why bother!?

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IMHO stacking and rainbow both require a fair degree of board manipulation skill to truly be successful. With stacking you are manipulating the board to get the colour matches you need to deal a devastating tile attack. In rainbow you are manipulating the board to charge your heroes to fire their specials in the order you want them to. In both cases you are also striving to minimize the amount of opponent mana charging you do.


I wonder if SG would give us some commander abilities to compensate for the 20% defense bonus.

On offense you can:
(You get 5 Command Power to use as you see fit. Everyone starts with ability 1. 2-6 are unlockable.)

  1. redraw an opening board. This removes ALL tiles without taking an action and replaces your board entirely. Matches on this new board are probably possible, so it might end up using your turn. (Activate cost 5 Command Power [CP])

  2. deal 5% of an enemy hero’s health as damage to them.(words are hard :stuck_out_tongue: but if they got 1000 HP this is 50 Hit Points they’d take. 75 at 1500. (Activate cost 2 CP)

  3. shuffle the board. (3 CP)

  4. remove a buff from a friendly hero. (1 CP)

  5. revive a friendly hero with 1 HP. All status effects are removed from the hero. (5 CP)

  6. Fast Forward the battle if you have more heroes AND more hit points remaining than the enemy team. (0 CP)

Rationale on each:

1 helps when you have an awful opening board. (Hopefully haha. )

2 helps when you NEARLY killed an enemy hero. So close in fact that it was within the world of RNG that they may have already died. This can be game changing and having an extra 100 damage to mitigate that seems fair to me.

3 a little tornado action in a raid? Why not :slight_smile: as fine a “well this board sucks” action as anything, right? :p)

4 corner case but a few times it might help: WK buff is on a sniper and you really don’t want it there right now. Or your team is about to get hammered and spirit link is not looking so favorable. Problem: Probably need to be able to choose which specific buff to remove to make this work as intended.
Also… could let it remove a debuff for 3CP… but ehhhh. I prefer the buff thing :stuck_out_tongue:

5 I can think of some scenarios where this could be a winner… versus an enemy sniper about to fire and kill your last hero… gives ya someone back to help. Of course the big one is, hero was about to fire and died. With fighters having a native revive, and so many revivers in general, I don’t think this would be out of place. Since those abilities all proc on RNG this would help to mitigate that RNG.

6 SG can choose to have a nominal gem cost for this. So people can choose whether they wanna pay for it or not.

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Does anyone else here think that there is so much more to the Telluria thing than just “why bother”? Like, how is it that almost every player I raid has her in the middle? Because, how is it that every player has her? I thought these heroes were supposed to be rare. For Telluria, the idea of her being rare is either a myth or a lie. I have had days where every team I raid has her sitting in the middle. Seems like even if she is the game’s supreme God hero that rarity is supposed to prevent that exact thing.


During the month that she was HOTM Telluria was not as rare as other 5* since she was 1.3% for her alone. Other 5* are 1.5 to 2.5% for one of a pool of them. Basically if you were willing to make at least 100 pulls (including event and costume) you stood a pretty good chance of getting her. The higher you go in cups the more prevalent she becomes.

Now that her month is over she is exceedingly rare for new players and those who missed out.

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I didn’t mean it in the literal sense, but to say she is pretty powerful and “almost” impossible to beat. I have beaten her a few times, but I get reluctant to challenge when every opponent is armed with her.


I agree with you. The PVP/Raid is just Telly and a bunch of others. I used to avoid Guinevere like the plague and now I get excited and fight her even though I probably can’t win just because it isn’t Telly. The game is getting boring.


anyone who was paying attention knew that Telluria was going to be game breaking. In December I was telling my alliance to save EHTs because Vela, JF, and Telluria were all next level heroes who were gonna be at best borderline OP, and at worst game breaking.

JF saw a series of pre release nerfs that took some of his teeth away. Vela didn’t somehow AFAIK. Telly I think also saw some pre release nerfs but released she was clearly a game breaker.

When the top 1000 alliances all know someone is a game breaker, they pass the word along and then people hold summons for them, aaaaand do additional summons specifically for them.

In this way SG is encouraged to put out some OP heroes to make some bank… so it’s really lose lose for we the players.

SG got paaaaaiiiid and now we gotta deal with the fallout here.

Buncha bull crap is what it is.

Eventually we were gonna see some creeping power. V, JF, and Telly just kicked the new year off with a bang I guess :stuck_out_tongue:


AHAHAAA! That’s too funny. I have Guin. Actually I have two Telly’s. 1@ 3:70, the other @ 1:0. She’s just not my favorite, because of the overplay. I almost never use her except, occasionally in war.

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