The FTP Rebellion. Who wants to join? (Part 1)

[Saros]

@YayaTheobroma

I hate the Ninja Tower, I play it to level 20, force myself to, strictly for the loot. Same with mythic titan. I have heroes I want to level, heroes I waited for and was excited to pull, but will they mean much when they finally are maxed out? The evolution of the game is so disheartening.

The Ninja Tower can be completed even with a small set of carefully chosen S1 4* heroes. I intend to do a thorough video completing the next Tower with nothing but S1 3* and 4* s. Of course it will require items like tornadoes, but again - only Forge items are required, no Lodge heavy weaponry. And it’s important to be completed, because emblems on 4*s are extremely important if you are f2p. Plus it gives free xp - free, because it doesn’t require World Energy.

I felt the same as you about the Mythic Titan, until I realized that it is required to just reach top 10% for the more important rewards - at that stage you get guaranteed two 3* ascension mats. Of course, most of the time they can be farmables, but still. And for that you don’t need any broken heroes. Sure, elemental def down helps, but vs Hades my alt account did more damage to it with only a 4-1 yellow-Tiburtus team, no Wu Kong, no elemental def down either. Sadly without Scrolls of Alteration the top 10% seems like a distant goal, which means that you should hoard these from free sources (they are given as free prizes from seasonal events or Path of Valor on occasion) and use them only vs the Mythic titan. And of course, develop your base to the point where you can produce them. And if you are in alliance that has a lot of p2p players, they will most definitely buy the Mythic Titan bundle, supplying you with enough Alteration scrolls for one big hit.

@sleepyhead

But with power creep continuing… even with costumes and emblems, how can they compete in the Starfall event with a Starfall hero that has better stats, passive ability, gets a stat boost in the event and can bypass the stupid color reflect…

No one in the top places of the Starfall event had a Starfall hero. Most even used heroes like cGunnar even on Legendary just to further improve their scores. Here the real issue is the willingness of certain players to waste ton of money for unlimited replays of stages until they get that 0.00001% perfect board. This seems really sad, doesn’t show any real skill IMO but is of course encouraged and made that way by the developers to syphon most money from the players in the form of refill gems. But this is in every challenge event - not only Starfall. Can’t compete with that unless you are willing to do the same. And it’s really best to settle for top 1k, but at some time probably even that will become very hard to attain, since more and more players will be willing to waste ton of money just to get to the top. Overcompensating, maybe. I see no other reason for them to do it…

@Gwniver

Times of change is always up hill, especially when it means one is getting pushed down. It will become the new normal to be in Platinum instead of Diamond. To be in top 25% instead of top 1%.

Been there done that. Climbed to Diamond thrice with only a very limited roster of 4*s. Opened some Diamond chests. Found the usual crap inside - nothing special. Had to fight constantly premium A+ defences against the odds. No fun. Dropped back to platinum. And in Platinum I can fill raid chests regularly with 8-10 raids max, and the loot seems to be the same - yesterday pulled Rings from Platinum raid chest, so it’s fine actually. Better to fill it in Platinum fast than in Diamond slow and get frustrated from the power creep at the same time.

[sleepyhead]

these are some good rationales in terms of rewards…

… but I also do like a challenge, and the feeling of progress. I have mixed feelings about dropping to Platinum, knowing that I am able to hang in Diamond.

Re Starfall, yes because the heroes are new, so not many heroes in the teams of the top players yet. I wonder if that will continue to be true next Starfall, and next…

… but I agree with you, that expensive battle items and repeated replays with WE flasks contribute much to the top score…

[Saros]

@sleepyhead

… but I also do like a challenge, and the feeling of progress. I have mixed feelings about dropping to Platinum, knowing that I am able to hang in Diamond.

If you have a defense team that can hold you in Diamond, then by all means stay there.

However here is my concern…for us f2p (or vc2p in my case) players it’s far easier to assemble a defense team that can hold us in a certain arena than having a good enough roster to keep us comfortably winning in that arena.

Experienced that when I started playing, and am now re-experiencing it with my alt accounts. Example: Today I had PoV quest for 3 bronze arena raids. Had to complete it with several alts of mine. All of them have defense teams good enough to hold them in Gold. However I found myself hard-pressed to win with their rosters any raid in Gold. Had to have extremely favourable boards and it took me lots of rerolls and frustration. I’d say win ratio of 40-45%.

At the same time if I had dropped all of these accounts to Silver, I could win much easily (had a single one in Silver to prove it to myself).

With all that in mind, I think that although you have a good enough team to hold you in Diamond, it might be better to drop back to Platinum unless, of course, you already have the roster to guarantee you some 65-70% wins in Diamond as well.

@sleepyhead

Re Starfall, yes because the heroes are new, so not many heroes in the teams of the top players yet. I wonder if that will continue to be true next Starfall, and next…

People had that same concern about Villains, and see how that turned out - today there is almost no Villains hero in sight in Diamond or Platinum (except Toxicandra). Or in tournaments.

@sleepyhead

… but I also do like a challenge, and the feeling of progress. I have mixed feelings about dropping to Platinum, knowing that I am able to hang in Diamond.

What you have to understand is that you are trying to compete with a bunch of players using the equivalent of PC games’ resource cheat. I don’t see that as a true competition. For example, you can be 100 times better than someone in raids or in challenge events, but due to the fact that opponent is cheating, you will ultimately lose. This however doesn’t make him better than you. Of course, with resource cheat vs no cheating there is no actual way to determine skill level or progression.

Which is why I track my progress looking at my own accomplishments in the game. For example, when I coudln’t climb NT beyond 30, and this time when I did it to 50 - this is was a great challenge and a definite skill progression IMO.

[YayaTheobroma]

The point with the Ninja Tower and Mythic titan is, I don’t enjoy playing them. At all. It’s not about how to win, it’s just that it’s a chore…

[sleepyhead]

re Villains and Starfall heroes, good point. maybe the distribution of those heroes, is still quite low… I do wonder, with SG churning out so many new events and heroes, and the speed increasing, will we see fewer of a certain hero around because the spenders have to split their summons among different portals?

@Saros

Which is why I track my progress looking at my own accomplishments in the game. For example, when I coudln’t climb NT beyond 30, and this time when I did it to 50 - this is was a great challenge and a definite skill progression IMO.

I also do this. What worries me, is that at some point I hit the glass ceiling. Not only that, but it will become impossible to maintain where I am now.

Take challenge events. I know that anything above 10k/ 5k / 10k is a stretch. But what if even 10k/5k/10k becomes impossible to reach?

or raids. indeed, i can raid offensively fairly well in Diamond. but what if one day, the power creep becomes so much that I cannot even stay in Diamond anymore?

I don’t have any rational or evidence-based answers for these questions. I will need to see how it goes…

[Muchacho]

@Gwniver

Unite and know you are not alone in the position you are in.

Well said @Gwniver . Change is inevitable and if the next imminent change may make things difficult the reason this thread exists is to help each other through those changes in terms of both tactics and support (and bad jokes).

[Muchacho]

@sleepyhead

I don’t have any rational or evidence-based answers for these questions.

I would remind everyone too that when we saw S3 heroes they would ruin the game. Then it was ninjas. Then it was S4.

People think a lot about “what if…”. I don’t think those added heroes ruined the game. Are they better than my heroes, sure. They are also distributed enough that fighting a team with a couple is no big. It is a challenge, but a fun an manageable one.

I think one thing to keep in mind is that there will be big spenders with the monster teams and roster your worries about. Those players make up say 2% of the player base. I think we need to remember there is big turn around amoungst them as well.

They say by the best roster, think they mastered it and leave.

They don’t do anything for a long time so they get bored and leave.

A million other reasons……

Now say that 2% threshold, I made that up just to have a number, only ever fluctuates half a percent. Whales don’t buy and stay forever and then new whales join them.

Yes, there may be a glass ceiling of hanging with that small minority on top, but the rest of the people will have those heroes sprinkled in and keep the game interesting.

Remember, defenses are deceptive. @sleepyhead and I both have enough HotMs and special 5’s to make a 5 hero D team with them. It tools us years, but a player scrolling through for a road opponent could easily say “ha, look at those spenders!” just because of those 5 single heroes.

Since that 1-3% ceiling was ALWAYS there, its composition just changed, I don’t think all this will fall on the extreme side of all of these “what if ….” statements based on history of in game roll outs and releases.

@sleepyhead and @ThePirateKing , etc will still master up cunning ways to beat events, etc giving them more rolls and those rolls will eventually be additional awesome heroes (deservedly so). Then those couple new special mixed with the slightly older specials tweaks your attack teams up just enough to stay where you’re at generally.

Anyone consider this scenario? Because that seems like what has mostly happened to me at least already.

Food for though. Now I need food for my mouth….

[sleepyhead]

Thanks for the chin up and optimistic scenario @Muchacho you’ve definitely lifted my mood

I would say lunch is on me, but I don’t think a messy sleepyhead is good for your appetite

[Muchacho]

@sleepyhead

I don’t think a messy sleepyhead is good for your appetite

Why’re you messy?

There is a place by my house with a breakfast sandwich called a “Hot Mess”. It is awesome.

Anyways, I am out. My wife and I had our 14th anniversary earlier and the week and are celebrating today. I am certain it’s been harder for her, patience of a saint .

[sleepyhead]

Me being messy is one of those bad jokes this thread is for lol.

I said “lunch is ON me”.

Happy anniversary to you and your wife enjoy the celeb!

Also Hot Mess sounds like a tantalising sandwich

[SamMe]

I had tried to start my reply to you, but I feel I need more time to see how I feel before I can answer. As always, I appreciate the efforts in your replies @Shohoku79!

[Muchacho]

Let’s not forget, being the F2P rebellion, those whales allow us to play for nothing. I have never spent even a Google credit. Aside from MV views I have given them nothing. If that means there is a club at the tippy top of the mountain I can’t be in but get the rest of the mountain to myself, then fine by me

[SamMe]

Firstly, @Muchacho: Thank you for your thoughtful reply, and kind offer of a temporary or otherwise home.

I was in a high end alliance up until last month. As much as I enjoy the people there, I needed a break from that level of play.

They kill 14* titans non-stop, and I just wasn’t feeling the farming needed to get crafting mats for battle items.

I stayed at a friend’s alliance for a while, before moving to another friend’s alliance to help with the Mythic Titan.

It was at the second alliance that I saw the v39 release notes including limit breakers**. Then they released the Q&A with game designers which said that the limit breakers were non-negotiable.

So I moderately tried another environment. And I’m currently trying a different environment. I won’t disappear overnight. There’s your 4* ToL challenge, which I still want to see who the bosses are first.

I understand your primary beef. I did think it was very telling that the 4* hero option in HA was released with purely S1 4* output. Underwhelming for sure, but I could see it coming.

Your luck will turn @Muchacho. Probably not the specific costume I’ve still been hoping for. Maybe I need to change tactic.

**Maybe I appear more competitive than I am. One of several reasons that I am strongly against limit breakers is I don’t care for the extra hero levelling mechanic.

As a 3.5+ years player, I do not believe there has been any change to how you level up heroes. That is, the act of using feeders, ham, and ascension mats to level up heroes. Isn’t this correct? @Rook @littleKAF

So it’s a pretty boring process to level up heroes, and this is an additional layer of boring.

[SamMe]

@sleepyhead To answer your what if question about challenge events: I think by the time it happens, you will have had your fill of the challenge events. So, while future you will still care about placing pretty high in challenge events, it won’t bother you too much.

On your what if question on staying in Diamond: Then you just raid mostly in Platinum, and sneak over to open your raids chest in Diamond.

We cannot change what SG/Zynga may or may not do. We keep maximising what we have - like we already do.

It is up to the person to decide their spending and priorities. Perhaps you will think: "You know what? I’ve already achieved so much. So what if I can’t raid to top 100 anymore. There is absolutely nothing for me to prove.

Instead of chasing heroes, I prefer to treat my partner to a nice dinner or buy that fine fragrance he/she’s been sampling. That’s what matters to me."

[sleepyhead]

That’s a great point @SamMe maybe my happiness will come from chatting with ally mates and smashing the Titan and trying new team combos while farming

[Rook]

@SamMe

As a 3.5+ years player, I do not believe there has been any change to how you level up heroes. That is, the act of using feeders, ham, and ascension mats to level up heroes. Isn’t this correct?

Same same. Going on 4 years now. What you get at the end might be better though. Hmm…

[SamMe]

So it’s been the same boring process for four years…

Thank you for confirming though @Rook! What you get at the end is your third and fourth HOTMs back to back sometime by late 2021?

[Rook]

Oh everyone is different. I only have three HOTM in 4 years. That cannot be average

[Shohoku79]

@Rook

I only have three HOTM in 4 years. That cannot be average

Let me see, Clarissa, Zocc, and Yang Mai right? That was two last year and one this year. We are still just half way through the year, you will get your shots to beat the odds and keep the curse broken.

[littleKAF]

@SamMe

As a 3.5+ years player, I do not believe there has been any change to how you level up heroes. That is, the act of using feeders, ham, and ascension mats to level up heroes. Isn’t this correct? @Rook @littleKAF

Well, I believe there was a change with AM at the very beginning. It’s before me but @Rook should know. There’s an acorn looking thing that used to be an AM - you can choose it as a banner. And costumes were different. Then emblems. Now limit breakers. So there’s been some changes. Just depends on your perspective.