The Big Problem as I See It

To anyone who cares to read this (TL;DR, but worth it),

There have been a lot of complaints lately about the state of the game. There have been a lot of suggestions made about how to make things better. And, to be honest, although a lot of them have been great ideas (a marketplace to trade resources, for instance), I think it hides the major flaw in this game that’s been eating away at me, and why I think more and more people have been leaving the game altogether. I’m not a firm believer that the game is as cyclical as people claim it to be, and with some changes (or, to be more accurate, one change in particular), this could be better managed.

A marketplace isn’t the cure for this problem. It merely masks the symptom, which is that ingredients are very poorly distributed.

Empires and Puzzles is one of the only games I’ve ever played where the game gets deliberately more pointless the higher you go. As your forge gets higher in levels, it costs a lot to forge the premium items – as it should be. But, those items should actually be made available, and they aren’t.

Long ago, before Alliance Wars, the only real reason people joined a faction was to hit the titan. Then, as an alliance grew, so did the titans, and we had to craft better items in order to defeat them. That’s the basic premise, right? Except the problem is, and it’s a tough one to swallow, is that the ingredients to make these better items are extremely hard to find.

I’ve been days without an Orichalcum Nugget, necessary for Revive Scrolls and – more importantly – Tornadoes. It says this precious resource can be found any time after Province 5, but an increased chance in Season 2, Provinces 14, 16 and 18. Great! How exactly do I get there? I’m stuck at Province 6, waiting a month at a time to get spoon-fed 3 more stages. At this rate, I’ll reach Province 14 in 3 months.

So, I’ve been meandering around the middle to upper stages in Season 1, looking for a nugget. As Rook put it, I have to “kill, kill kill!” But I have been farming like a madman. I’ve been playing this game since last October and I’m at Level 46.

We’re taking on 8* and 9* titans and we’re having a real hard time because we can’t craft the kinds of items necessary to take down a beast of that size. We can’t craft because we can’t get the items. I don’t need 11,388 common herbs. Why am I still getting them?

So, here’s the solution, as I see it. Instead of doing things like nerfing 8-7 and the like, why are you not changing the mindset to reward higher achievements? Why is it that people are grinding 8-7 anyway? Because you can get the same number of items and recruits for 8-7 than you can at 20-4. That does nothing to deter players from farming the smaller levels. Why not make the crafting items – the more useless of them – available in the lower tiers only, the medium ingredients like Grimoire Dust and Fine Steel in the middle tiers, and Orichalcum Nuggets or Dragon Bones for the upper ones, so at least someone knows where to go to find what they need, instead of twiddling their fingers while auto-farming for nothing? Why not make the higher levels worth more recruits so they’re worth 6 and 7 Flags we have to spend on them?

I digress. I mean it, though – it’s been days since I’ve been able to craft a single Tornado. And it’s getting old. I’m losing interest because we have to hit these titans daily. Every single day. Every day I let down my alliance because you let me down in the game. These ingredients need to be easier to come across.

It’s an easy fix, as far as coding goes. And then you won’t lose players like me who just lose interest because the most basic of needs – crafting ingredients – aren’t being met.

I’m not asking for a better chance at 5* heroes, or more access to ascension items (frankly, I think that would be a mistake because then everyone would be running around with the same 7 or 8 maxed out heroes and everything would get boring). No, all I’m asking for is to be able to craft a bloody Tornado. And apparently, that’s too much to ask.


i agree with you on the material drop ( very basic and necessary to enjoy the game )

got the same problem with hard iron ( for arrows and time stoper )…i must make a choice every time when crafting item…lol. blind the titan ou drop his mana out, the cost is no the same…4 irons to craft a time stoper…and i run after them

oil is my second blacksheep…so tornadoes are rare…and so usefull.

i’m full of other ingredient

we need a trade shop IG with a pnj, where you can recylcle your jewels in a famous hunting game by capcom :smile:

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I think the problem is you have gotten into a cycle of being item dependent on titans. Ever since I started competing in the challenge events I have had to start saving my items, specifically mana, axes, bombs, arrows, tornadoes, timestops, and dragon atttacks. Due to saving I’ve gotten used to fighting titans with a bare minimum usage of high level items. My mainly used items are the 20 minor health potions, 10 antidotes, and occasional turtle/bear/dragon banner. Using the health potions also required me to use 2 hands and helped me with speed item usage that is helpful for the events. The only times I’ve ever even used a timestop or tornado was for the occasional rare titan.

Our alliance advocates for sustainable titan hitting, the more high level items you use the more your alliance strength is “inflated” meaning you’re killing titans ONLY through being dependent on items. We also only flask when a rare refuses to go down. When I first joined my current alliance we were killing 9 stars having trouble with 10 stars. Now we regularly kill 10 stars and occasionally 11 stars. My titan team consists of mostly 4 stars. I’ve barely started working on my 2nd and 3rd 5 star currently.

Edit: I’m a solid B hitter with occasional spots at A and sometimes A+ on a really good day or if I level up.


Thats really good pal, but wait to go regulary on 11* or 12* and you notice the difference.
If you don’t have a good roster of 5* heroes that can sustain some hits from this titans, you can’t go anywhere without mana/timestops/tornados and so on.
Even more because Hp grown as titans grown in stars, so you have to increase your average score and without this items it’s really hard (sometimes really hard even with them)
Take as example a 11* gorgon queen. To maximize my score i have to put in my team boldtusk-gormek-falcon-elena-wu kong.
Thats four (!) 4* heroes against a titan that hit like crazy. How will you survive that and do a score that can help your team taking her down?
High items. Pure and simple. You can go with bombs and banners and heal potions, and stay half of the time cure yourself and do 8k.

So yeah, i don’t really see the point to use nados and timestops on 8* titans like the OP suggest, but we really need higher drops of farmable high stars materials, and we do need a reason to farm higher stages rather then still go in 6-8 or 8-7.

Higher stages you reach and you suppose to be rewarded, thats what every other games do. (Correctly)


I think it is a new challenge to fight higher titans with small items. It is possible but you need to train. I just got a 49k hit on a green 12* with Boldtusk, Wilbur, Marjana, Elena and Wu, using small mana, arrows and banners. That is not always the case, but I have to say, that training is the most important thing.

But I agree, I would love to find more dragon bones and nuggets and I think this should be changed.

I think you missed the part where I emphasized sustainable titan killing. We will continue to kill titans using low level items. If we can’t kill a titan we let it go and will continue staying at 10 star titans until we are able to move up to an 11 star through either or both our team gets stronger or we get better. Besides, loot tier 9-13 still gets you 3 rolls so the only profitable point would be getting A on a 12 star or A+ on an 11 star to get you to that 14 tier with 4 loot rolls. Since that is the case, we are in no rush.


I dunno about you, but for me “playing” 8-7 and “playing” 20-4 are exactly the same:

I load up E&P
I collect all my food

I go to map

I choose the stage

I pay the flags

I hit fast forward

I set my phone down

I come back in two minutes and hit “replay”

Soooooo. I don’t see the difference. HONESTLY I would kinda hate having to wander around the map finding the “best” farming stage. It’s nice to be able to complete this mindless task as easily as possible.

What I had proposed on another thread was:
Give the player a slot where they can choose an increased chance of finding items.

To make this fit thematically I named it “hero scavenging orders” or something. Basically telling your heroes to look for that specific item.

I think it would be good to have 3 slots like this. Each adding +10% to that item, and doubling the native rate. (So for a 4* item it would raise it to maybe 14% if you gave it one slot, and let’s say 42% if you gave it all 3 slots)

@DMP is spot on about sustainable hitting. It’s the way to go. I use mainly mana potions on titans. When I run out, I just don’t use them :stuck_out_tongue: but I’ve gotten to where I am using fewer to try to maintain my supply so I have an equivalent amount for every Titan… With tornado it may not be possible so maybe make that a “special occasion” (rare titans) kinda thing?


At some point all alliances want to improve their titan rating. It’s just a status-quo, but be stagnating on 10* for too much don’t like to anyone.

So ok, you have no rush and i can agree with you, but even if the slots suppose to be the same my experience tell me that average rewards of 11* compared to 10* are indeed better (thank god!).

And once you reach that kind of titans and want to keep staying there, there’s little to nothing “sustainable” up there. For everyone.

And probably Small Giant at some point want to reintroduce 13* and 14*, no need to say that without hitting the weak point is one shot one kill almost everytime.

For all of this and for beeing bored of farming always the same stages, i gladly welcome the OP suggest.

For some reason nuggets have almost disappeared from the old haunts in S1. I use almost all my flags and in the past 12 days I have received only 3, instead of a steady trickle each day. And two of those were S2. I even put in a support ticket after 10 days of no nuggets, mainly to make me feel better. Even at 9* titans it is a lot tougher without tornadoes. By the way, the rest of the drops seem ok… for me it’s only nuggets that have disappeared

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I have 250-300 of each rare mat. I don’t really use them. I’ve never used a time stop, tornado, or revive scroll on a Titan and my alliance is on 8/9* rare. I don’t have a 5* hero max level yet. I’m regularly top 1-4 damage on titans and 4th strongest team. My forge is lvl 16 now. The few drops for tornados and times stops and miracle scrolls I got I saved for the events early on when I couldn’t finish them and wanted to win. I haven’t used them the last 2-4 events…

My point is you don’t need an excessive amount of consumables to play… you can kill 10+* titans with unlimited Titan flasks too but you don’t need them… and we only use those flasks on rare 9* titans when we need the extra damage…when I’m able to forge tornados I’ll likely use 1 per Titan. And I’m pretty sure 11*+ titans are mainly for 5* hero’s with a handful of maxed 4*. You don’t get much more for a 11*+ Titan then you do a 9* anyway except bragging rights.

Bro, we are easy killing 9☆ titans and I never used a tornado on any of them.

Some times when your Alliance mates are just not ready to kill big titans, you have to let go of them.

Its not your fault that your alliance’s mates aren’t yet dtrong enough to team group play that is strong enough to kill 8/9☆ titans.
Nothing to be ‘letting your alliance down’!

As for me I even don’t need a tornado.
Dragon flag
Large mana

This is all you need to get great score.
Plus stacks color and Wu kong or tarlak.

But ofc you know all of that.
Good luck.

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Bombs, Axes, Arrows, Pots, Banners - Titan Items

Tornadoes, Time Stops, Miracle Scrolls - Event high score items

Why do you need to use event high score items to take down 8 and 9 star Titans? We had a rare red 9 star yesterday and I used banners, axes, arrows and Mana pots with Grimm, Alasie (3 70) Kiril (3 60) Valen and Sabina (3 27) and did just fine. You don’t need all those “super items” for 9 star Titans.


There is a sneaking suspicion that the higher the Titan :star:, the better the odds of getting those 3* and 4* mats are (beyond having more ‘rolls’). I don’t believe there had been any extensive data gathering to validate it besides maybe from @Dante2377
Its pretty hard to nail the difference down if you’re going from 2% on an 11* and 3% on a 12* Titan though :smile: but the rewards on 11*-12* have noticeably (it’s anecdotal though) gone up since I was on 10*.

As for the original topic at hand. I agree with it for the most part. I think there needs to be more of a use for later levels. Making the rewards more linear with progression makes sense to me.

Like others I’ve had to deal with item shortage. Honestly, the best answer I’ve got is to ignore 99% of the map and only farm 6-8 and learn to throttle your battle items against a Titan. Not every hit do you need to use a heavy amount. We fight 12* Titans everyday and I try to limit myself to 3 timestop and 3 tornado OR less a Titan (usually used over the course of 5 hits).

They are really fun though and I’d be happy to see odds increased.


It would go a long way if they would give us a reason to collect wooden shields, training manuals etc. since so much of the loot is unusable. Maybe they could be used to craft higher level ascension mats or even crafting ingredients or something. If I could convert even a fifth of my training manuals to practice swords I’d do it. Better than them just sitting there with no use.

Tbh nuggets are pretty easy to find at 5-8.

What is a Tornado, where does one acquire them?

High level forge


20 characters


Tornado is a battle item that can be crafted in your forge at level 19.

When used, it gives all your heroes 40% mana and shuffles all the tiles on the board.

That’s not the point.

The point is that high value targets shouldn’t be in low-level areas.

I have to trudge though Province 5, earning no XP, no recruits, and no real loot just to snag something that I need daily anyway.

When you have 500k+ to go til the next level, you don’t want to be anywhere near 5-8. 5-8 should be for string and Level 15 players. 21-5 should be where I find Nuggets, XP, and a place to work toward the 100 recruits I’ll need for my TC.

The game should grow with the player. It shouldn’t force the player to regress. I’ve done my time in the trenches. I want to be challenged. I don’t want to waste my time and battery life having my phone die on the table auto-farming. I want to actually play the game and be engaged with it.

I expect I’m not alone in that thought.


The game does grow with the player, and the player needs to grow with the game. If you find yourself relying on Tornados, then your Titan game is a bit one-dimensional. You collect vast quantities of other crafting materials, I assume - learn to integrate the items you can build with them into your Titan game.

Maybe you stock up on heals and omit a healer. Maybe you craft a bunch of battle flags, don’t bother with mana, and rely on tile damage for your points. Maybe you combine projectiles with debuffer heroes.

There are lots of items and lots of different ways to use them. If you’re addicted to tornadoes or time stops then you’re limiting yourself.


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