🧪 The Beta Beat (v23) [NOW RELEASED] – Sharing the Big Picture on What's Going on in Beta: Stronghold 22/23 & Alchemy Lab, New Challenge Event Heroes, New Knights of Avalon & Pirates of Corellia Challenge Events, Costumes, November/December HOTM

For anybody like me with 10,000+ training manuals, that effectively becomes this…

iron = Troops?
Titan Parts = Gems?
recruits = emblems?

While younger players might be limited by the training manuals if the requirements are high enough.

And that doesn’t seem fair…I say as one of the beneficiaries of such things.


:rofl::rofl::rofl: 300 gems 4* mats and we can’t decide what will be this materials? Are they kidding with us or what.


I’m fine with a gem cost but it is really necessary that one can choose the desired item. Or else this alchemy lab is just too expensive to use. Or even build. I’m not gonna build it if the returned items are random. Then I’m just gonna watch mystic vision and hope for some telescopes :joy:

They could limit the number of Ascension items one can convert, if they are worried about getting them too quickly. But please let us choose the items


Whether or not converting 1* and 2* AMs upwards will be at all useful I reckon will come down to the costs and build times really. If it takes days to randomly re-roll a 4* AM then I reckon my Alchemy Lab will probably just be kept busy with 3* and 4* AMs but if the craft times are closer to Tornado or Time Stop crafting then I can easily see the Alchemy Lab spending most of its time sitting there doing nothing like Forges seem to right now.

But if you could burn through 1000 Training Manuals one week to make 100 2* AMs which the next week you can convert to 10 3* Farmables a day later that can be converted to 1 unfarmable 3* either for use or saving to use to craft a 4* item then provided the crafting costs for 1* to 2* conversion were low I can see a decent use case compared to letting the Alchemy Lab sit idle…

Though as I say it is a matter of craft times with just the one lab if we’re looking at 1 day long craft times for most things then it is a mute point.

That might sound good to a beginning player … but I’ve got hundreds of 3* non-farmables already. And thousands of 2* mats. And 10,000 training manuals.

So if it worked that way for me, I’ve got a six month stockpile for the last stage, before I need to do either of the prior stages. And I know a lot of players with more than I have.


Yup I too have a good stockpile of 3* but then that is because we haven’t had the ability to convert them before. Once the ability is added you’ll get to the point of burning through them that crafting more from a lower tier item then becomes a desirable option.

I mean everyone builds up a massive stockpile of Rugged Clothes as they build their way up to TC20 but months later when they’ve been running TC19 awhile they burn their way through most them.

Same principle may apply here but in this case once the existing 3* stockpile has dried up it is better to put the Alchemy Lab to use making more of them rather than standing idle doing nothing.

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If I will not using this building why I have to build it. 300 gems it’s too much. I prefer to spend my gems on Atlantis and wait for mats and not to give for crafting.


The problem with the current implementation is that it’s not — unless you have an endless budget for gems, and don’t mind spending them just to burn useless items in your inventory.


I’d much rather save the gems for Atlantis summons to fill the Atlantis ascension chests and get a shot at excellent heroes.


If they have to make it RNG it should not cost gems and you should not get the mat. you worked with to start the process.


I think it is the gems part that causes the issue with the model really. I would go with random conversions within a rarity tier or random upgrading items from one tier to another shouldn’t cost gems but if you want to specify what you want to convert an item to in the same rarity tier then gems are needed. With that there could be a legitimate use for randomly upgrading low tiered AMs that otherwise you wouldn’t do anything with during times you don’t need to convert more important items.


My Point on this, is the use of gems, clearly this is taking it out of F2P friendly. I have an alternate account that is purely f2p and it takes months to gather up 300 gems.

Now let say I put in 4 * item with gems into the lab hoping for a different 4* and puff instead of giving a different 4 * it returns the same 4* as the input. Apart from the lost gems that part doesn’t look progressive,.

There should be a work around here, to prevent outrage of complaints all over the place.

My suggestion would be simply ensure that once you put in an item, you don’t get that same item back. And secondly, the gem cost should be reviewed.


Pokemon GO does this with Charge TM ( think 4* ascension item rarity ), and it is still a problem. Lets say I have to many Telescopes and Tabards, but not enough Rings and Tonics. It is guaranteed with RNG that some one will have the Telescope turn into a Tabard, then when they transmute that Tabard it will turn back into a Telescope. It was never the same 4* twice, but it was still something you did not need. Pokemon GO eventually put in something to reduce RNG, but that seems to be against a core concept of Empires.


It’s all just screaming endgame content. By the time you’ve lvled all the buildings required to even get to advanced buildings then the new build times on top your talking 2yrs of gameplay.

I’m 10 months in almost, I’d call myself very cheap to play, mainly just vip and I’m already building a surplus of 3* non-farmable mats and the 4* mats are pretty much keeping up with my incoming 5* hero’s

So while yes I’ll max advanced farm mine stores and house, and probably hunters Lodge eventually, this lab seems pointless for my game play and makes me wonder how much of a game changer the hero academy would be if this is the direction sg sees the game content going


Currently in beta, you can research/transmute different levels simultaneously. It’s not like other buildings where they can only operate serially on one level. So you could queue up 10k training manuals, transmute 3* AMs, and try trading out 4* AMs all at the same time.

You’d probably have to upgrade it all the way first, though. The build times are really long and it was even annoying/time consuming advancing them on the beta fast-track lol. I might reload my base after testing a few transmutes to verify if you have to wait on upgrades.


I’m surprised people are now realizing these new buildings aren’t FTP friendly. It was kinda obvious that these are aimed at high-end players only. The Hunter’s Lodge and the Alchemy Lab will be useful only for people who have been playing for months, like BarryWuz said before.

Having to pay gems for a chance to get ascension mats makes it even more obvious. FTP players will be forced to spend gems or buy VIP passes if they wanna catch up to old players.

Personally I wouldn’t mind paying gems but only if I could transmute the ascension items I really need. The problem of the game tho is that devs put an RNG element in everything they do. That’s what caused the problem in the first place. In the AMA they said the alchemy lab would solve some of the AM problems but the way it is right now it’s actually the opposite.


As for the training manuals, they might be useful in the hero academy (as well as other Mats of which we currently have way to many)

Concerning the high gem cost. Yes, if you want one specific ascension mat and have to pay 300 gems, then it’s quite a lot. However, if you have a huge surplus of one of the mats but several others would help you, you don’t need 7 rolls on average (and thus 2100 gems) but maybe two to three rolls in order to get something much better. Then 300 gems per roll isn’t that bad anymore (still a bit too much)

Like almost everybody, I definitely do hope that the gem cost will be somewhat lowered (brew time and food cost might be increased for that). But like @BarryWuzHere I agree that we had to expect that SGG won’t give us tons of great Mats for free.

I think a modest amount of gems + high amount of food for getting a chance to convert 3* farmable stuff to 3* non farmable and maybe even 4* non farmable is absolutely fair. Same with converting 4* into other 4* Mats.

Dunno if somebody already suggested this but I think Alchemy Lab should be unlocked at a lower level like the troop barracks, and the new functions/recipes in it should be unlocked gradually everytime the stronghold levels up. That way players of all levels will be using their labs.

End game content or things only useful for end game players is one thing.

FTP unfriendly / paying only content is another.

These advanced buildings, especially the alchemy lab which requires stronghold 23 is absolutely end game stuff, and that is how it should be.

Whether it is unfriendly to free/cheap players is a different thing. I’d say that the VIP 2nd builder will make a huge difference for it, so it is a lot friendlier to players paying at least that much.

I’m reserving judgement on the gem costs for the alchemy lab, but if they remain, that is clearly pushing it toward paying players only. (Note how much that changes in the raid tournaments from the first beta version)


Barry there were huge changes from the first version of raid tournament in beta to the official level. The biggest being, their used to be a entrance fee and we could re-roll oppenents.

Enough criticism can make SG change their mind, of course they can just go a route that doesn’t make things better at all


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