đŸ§Ș The Beta Beat (v22) [NOW RELEASED] – Sharing the Big Picture on What's Going on in Beta: New Buildings, Titan Battle Items & September/October HOTM

a week’s time upgrade was one of the most annoying things when building and i truly despise evey upgrade taking more than 2 days. and now we’re expected to wait 15?

yeah, i suppose it’s logical if we consider previous progression, but that doesnt mean it makes sense. at all. or should we wait 120 days for sc upgrade level 30 for example?

congrats on your patience and not complaining. but why are we expected to take you for a reference point? if so, please explain why.

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Because my opinion counts as much as yours. I didn’t ask for any credentials from you


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did i say you need them? did i say you don’t matter? anyway, you were simply stating how you feel without any jab at our complaining at all? then i misunderstood and i apologize.

if that is not the case however and you expect people to follow your example, i would expect you to elaborate why we shouldn’t complain and why is a time building bloat a good thing.

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Thank you very much for your reply. Today I read that v22 is due for release in 16 days.
Will v22 be in Beta?

Guys ever consider SG is listening too f2p and c2p players and creating building times so “it’s fair”
 because you can pay gems immediately to finish building. “The Whales” can buy Hunters lodge almost immediately really. So, way to go all you whiners you finally got what you wanted


New HOTM for September and October have been added to Beta for testing.

I’ve created new discussion threads for them with initial stats and info, and also added summary information and links to the top post of this thread.

For discussion of these upcoming HOTM, please use these specific threads NOT this main thread:

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At first I was disagreeing with many of the people criticizing build times but they do have a point
 at least for the hunters lodge. It would add something additional for mid level players to do, so why not?

The other stronghold and advanced mine/farm/upcoming hero academy seem fine with the harder requirements.

After 5 months I finally got my first TC20 to start working (hope it yield good results, because TC 13 gave me many 3*, all of them at least once except Azar, and only Wu Kong). That said the waiting times are annoying for two reasons that were addressed here, I believe.

  • Building can’t be accessed during upgrading/researching. The longer the waiting time the longer they are useless.
  • We only have one builder (2 with VIP) that does nothing until the building is completing. The longer the waiting time the longer nothing else can’t be build while iron is going to waste.

Edit: But I can’t help to be excited about the new buildings anyway.

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Most of the stuff that will be in V22 is currently in Beta yes.

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Wouldn’t it be Quarti, if he got 4?

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Around here we just call that a dollar. :face_with_monocle:

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Wow, it seems my whining about whiners set off a lot more whining! lol

And sadly I was preoccupied and couldn’t respond before now. But I do want to try to clear some things up now that I do have some time.

@anon82149927

Your comments from before i said anything today, were not among those that i considered to be whiny. In fact, having just re-read them, I think they were insightful and valid criticisms! But you responded pretty vigorously to my first comment, so I snarked back without bothering to check if you were even one of the earlier whiners. Mea culpa.

That being said


That’s not, at all, what I’m suggesting. And if you’d known my first comment wasn’t directed at you, I’m sure you wouldn’t have thought so in the first place, right?

Again, my harsh stance wasn’t intended for every person saying something negative in the thread, and I definitely should’ve done a better job expressing that from the jump. Sorry.

I do happen to think it’s trivial, and in the long run it’ll be worth it, but this is a certainly a valid thing to bring up. My counterargument is that it’s no different from lower level upgrades. Mines/farms/etc have always had to be out of commission while being upgraded. And the time cost for each incremental upgrade has always increased with each level, so they’re just following the same pattern. If these extra upgrade levels were part of the game from the beginning, nobody would have batted an eye.

@SirGorash

See my comments above. I didn’t specifically call anyone out in my first comment, and I guess maybe I should have, because it seems like several folks it wasn’t intended for, thought that it was! Sorry!

That being said, There certainly were some less thoughtful, and less constructive criticisms upthread. Some examples:

“Wanted to throw in my 2c about new build times. I think they are absolutely ridiculous and the main reason I even felt need to create this account because I couldn’t just sit quiet and watch this wreck.”

“I have now lost all faith in SGG ever making this game F2P or C2P friendly. All this work on new buildings etc just seems like a facade to hide the fact that spending money is the only way to enjoy this game to maximum.”

“I think at this point I’ve lost all hope of this game will ever not treat non-whales as 3rd rate citizens. Hate being a naysayer but all of these developments just seem like heading towards disappointment.”

“just wait and wait. i play 10 months and i don’t have hotm. but i have three times domitia,two Elkanen. nice motivation. i want hero academy . Nice time delete this game”

“I feel that these are seaming to be stupidly long. Just another way to slow game down. Mean time something to do until season 3. If these take that long your builders will be stuck on one for way to long. What happens if your second builder runs out will all he had done on that building be lost??? If so it would seam as that is a another money drain forcing you to KEEP it.”

@Sid1207

I quoted you a couple of times there, but I also need to give you credit for some constructive and reasonable takes in the thread as well. You got a couple of likes out of me, in addition to my ire for some whining. :slight_smile:

You also made a couple of points that I wanted to attempt to address:

“No one yet has offered a reasonable explanation as to how waiting 15 days on one upgrade level is better for the game as compared to 2d/level. If you can justify, please enlighten rest of us.”

Like I said to bumblecat above, these wait times follow the same pattern as previous upgrades. But it’s not just a pattern SG implemented for no reason. Every single thing about this game is based on the concept of diminishing returns. Early on, it’s fast and easy to progress. Build times are short, upgrades are cheap, you level up like every other day, etc. But as you get deeper into the game, progress slows more and more. At the very top end, every little thing takes tons of time and resources. 5-star heroes take way more time, ham, and feeders to max than 3-star heroes. Same for 4-star troops. Emblem costs and the associated ham/iron costs increase as you progress through the talent tree. And so on. And the POINT of all this is actually to keep some semblance of balance, despite there being both a handful of whales that keep SG in business, and a huge population of f2p players that keep the game itself humming along. While it’s of course true that f2p will never be able to acquire all the same heroes and other perks as whales, they CAN still bring some TC20 heroes to a raid and smash the likes of grave, guin, zeline, and so on. So THAT’s where the long build times fit, in the grand scheme of the game.

“Also I have heard this argument float around multiple times that long build times etc are specifically structured in that fashion so it takes months and years for players to max something and they don’t get ‘bored’ with the game early. This is a fallacy and don’t agree with this line of reasoning at all. If you are looking for players to log into daily play the game more, waiting for something passive like build times isn’t gonna be that.”

True
 but


“You know what makes players log in daily? Something that actually they can actively participate in eg: map levels, Titans, raids, wars, tourney’s, events etc. Those are well thought out features/offerings that actually make people care about the game.”

Yeah! Exactly! Actually, I think I totally agree with you here. Trying to claim that the long build times are intended to prevent boredom would absolutely be a fallacy.

“I can spot a band-aid fix when I see one, and long build times are just a band-aid fix.”

Here’s where I disagree again though. If the long build times WERE intended to alleviate boredom, I’d agree that they’d be a poor excuse for a band-aid. But as per what I just said above, I don’t at all believe that SG intends these long build times to alleviate boredom. The build times are just a nevessary part of the overall framework of the balance of the game. The stuff that the upgrades allow you to DO is the part that’s intended to give players something more to look forward to. (And most of these current new buildings are just the tip of the iceberg in that regard. It’s the alchemy lab and hero academy that’ll HOPEFULLY be the real McCoys in terms of new things to get players excited.)

Whew! That was a lot to get off my chest! Kudoes to anyone who actually made it all the way through!

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@Sid1207

I also wanted to add that I’m glad you created an account and decided to join the conversation, even if it happened for a reason I happen to disagree with.

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That’s fine.I was kinda whining but I think it wasn’t without reason. The wait time to get TC 20 was rough on me and knowing that there would be even longer wait times, it just added to existing frustration.

Grinding isn’t really new for me. I’ve logged 200+ hrs/game with games like Skyrim, FNV, FF, Borderlands, Witcher, etc but somehow this game is testing my patience. Might just take it as a hint, that some newer parts of the game aren’t for me. Either I’ll end up spending money or quit, but I’m running very thin on patience for waiting game.

Well that sounds like lawyer speak for saying that’s because of precedence. I agree they follow logical progression, but I also don’t see why the build times couldn’t be ‘buffed’.

To be honest, when I started the game I found the concept very interesting because it was like real life. If you need to build something bigger, you need more materials and time. But when it started crossing that 4 day mark on build time, I felt like it touched that patience limit for me. I am having enough issues with contractors as is in real world, don’t really appreciate that feeling in virtual world :smile:

I think then we are on same page. These building wait times are designed to be as unappealing as possible and aimed at a very small subset of players who are very driven.

I actually don’t see it that way. Whales will be able to spend money and get whatever they want, F2P will have to invest a lot of time to get to their level. I think most practical readers of this thread have come to terms that as F2P they are very less likely to see Guins, Ares, Athenas in their lifetimes. TC20 is a great tool to get some powerful heroes as F2P.

I personally don’t even care about raiding and just need good teams to survive titans. But my TC20 is weird and it handed me 2x Borils and 2x Kashreks, which I don’t appreciate as much. I would trade in my 2 Borils for a Kiril/Boldtusk in a heartbeat. Or I could pay 100 recruits + food to re-roll. Whales on other hand consider HOTM’s food.

I see these long wait times as more of a ‘motivating’ factor to get F2P to C2P, C2P to Spender, because after a point as you said earlier these upgrades just become unappealing.

Might be just me here, but I think SGG is overestimating the patience with which players will look forward to

True and again, I have really like these builds, it’s the inaccessibility during upgrades is what I’ve issue with. It wasn’t noticeable at lower levels, but I am sensing at higher levels and since these buildings mean building atop existing forges (which means going back and forth frequently using a builder) will started stinging.

Also I am equally interested in Hunter’s Lodge because I really really like smacking titans and I’ll take as many tools as offered to smack 'em some more.

Well if you don’t disagree with people, there won’t be a change and world would just stagnate. That’s my take on life. But yeah I’m glad I joined as well. If don’t post, at least I’ll be able to contribute to polls.

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I actually read every comment, no matter how long it takes. And I didn’t specifically mention you either but it’s good to see I struck a nerve too, Mr. Gregschen :wink:

I’d like to know your definition of ‘whining’, but that’s besides the point I guess. Excuse me if I sound rude but imo the forums weren’t made to kiss SG’s ■■■ only. By defending SG everytime they get criticized you’re actually hurting them more than helping them. A company can’t grow on cheers and praises only. Constructive and sometimes harsh criticism is the way to fix things that aren’t working as intended.

I get what you mean about the less thoughtful criticism in this thread though, but still I don’t get why you would use the word ‘whiner’ so often. I don’t see the point of insulting people who criticize the game. That’s why I said you don’t understand customers. In my experience an angry customer will always use hyperbolic comments they don’t really mean, the classic ‘I’m never coming back to this place! It ■■■■■■■ sucks!’, ‘You ruined the game with X feature!’ and so. It’s human nature. You shouldn’t be so defensive when you read a comment like that. Leave that to the staff.

Imo the staff should be a bit more proactive in clearing all the doubts when they’re about to release a new feature. They’re not doing a good job in that aspect. If they did we wouldn’t be here arguing and guessing how the new feature is gonna affect the game, right?

I wanna add something else. If people here really hated the game they wouldn’t even write a comment, they would simply leave and play another game. But they don’t, they stay and write a comment in hopes of being heard by the staff. Imo it’s a good thing there’s lot of criticism in this forum. It would be counterproductive to try and silence every complaint. Actually it’d be impossible, lol.

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I think you hit the nail on the head here. Removing emotion from reviews and distilling it is a science. My director once told us a war story on how he attempted to automate this (albeit unsuccessfully) at his last job (which was a site heavily focused on reviews). It should be staff’s job to actually intervene and explain game mechanics, intentions behind designs etc. It’s their job to track NPS. If someone dislikes something, it’s their job to gather feedback and figure out what could be done. And if nothing could be done, they service reps to help push down the pill with sugar. Relying on forum members and volunteers wouldn’t be very sustainable.

Any case, lot of food for thought in this thread.

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i accept your apology, please accept mine, i will admit i was a tad agressive.

anyway as for the building times just because we had a pattern 1-2-4-8
 does not mean that is logical or that it has to continue that way. it could easily just get even or even start to deescalate.

yes, if those were in place when game came out it would be normal, but it wasn’t because sg wasnt looking that far into future and prepare to gameplay to accomodate it. now it is patching new content because players need more stuff to do.

there were a lot of changes and additions that i appreciate. i’m not very much into emblems but i can see how they add to the game and give you some long term goals which is good actually. nothing to rush but something to work on. tournaments are great idea even if it takes time to iron it out. new skins for heroes sound great but i will hold my judgement until i see how it is implemented.

i would much rather see this update pushed half a year into future and have it come out in a more reasonable state. even requesting we upgrade stronghold is a slap in the face IMO. upgrading stronghold literally does nothing in terms of gameplay except prolong the time you can start working on your buildings.

but okay i could go along with it if building times were reduced to something sensible. as i see it now, the game imposes draconian demands on my time to be able to see and convert new items and open academy that will probably have high cost dismal odds anyway. and it doesn’t excite me, it actually makes me want to boycott it and the idea of quitting is more and more appealing.
i see this often tossed around- games should be fun, otherwise you should quit. i don’t see how 180 days of building could be fun for me.

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Just out of curiosity for everyone complaining about long build times
 what else are you going to do while farming for mats and heroes to max your 5*?

Having played a game that literally did have 1yr plus build times unless you dropped $100 for speed ups, I see nothing wrong with something taking a few weeks to a month to build.

There are always ways to do things more effectively and efficiently, as some have posted.

I for one am looking forward to the new features.

As for F2P vs C2P vs P2W, SG is in the business of making money. If they gave everything away to make the F2P happy, then none of us would have a game to play
 unless you wanted obnoxious ads every single time you did something.

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again you’re missing the whole point completely. @Cecyl916

so if we don’t have anything else to do we should be grateful we get to do one one the most boring tasks in the game prolonged to the extreme? no, as a customer we have a right to ask for some QUALITY things to do. hero academy, lodge and lab are a step in the right direction. THE WAY you get to them is obnoxious.

so no, i’m not grateful for every crumb thrown my way. but more power to you if it’s all the same to you of course.
as for sg making money, is anybody seriously worried about that anymore? besides, i would expect sg to make some intelligent and enticing moves to tempt me into spending, it happened before. using gems to speed up building won’t make me do it, if anything it makes my resolve to stop spending on this game firmer and firmer.

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No, I’m not missing the point, I’m saying that you are.

This game has never been about instant gratification, there’s a reason it’s called Empires & Patience.

The fact that F2P and C2P even have a chance is admirable and not the norm in MMORPG Games.

The fact that building anything does not keep you from doing anything else in the game is again, a good thing.

Look at how much time it takes to get every building maxed now, with or without VIP. The additional time for these next 5 levels is a drop in the bucket.

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