Telluria/Vela nerfed! Ok, where do we go from here? Part 1 (Tanks)

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Note - Part of my goal is to change the current narrative. We can yell and scream all we want. But if past history is any indication, the yelling and screaming will get us no where. If I’m completely crazy starting this thread, feel free to ignore it. I had nothing better to do anyways! Hahaha! :wink:

I come from the school “When the going gets tough, the tough get going!” You can either lay down when you face adversity or rise up and take it head on! So Telluria and Vela have been nerfed yet again! So where do we go from here? This community has been the best source of information, guidance and solutions, time and time again! Many of us are in the same boat with our main defenses, war defenses, raid team, war teams and tournament teams because of these changes. So what do you suggest?

Folks like @Suicide_Bunny @ThePirateKing @BubblesUK @rho @Guvnor @zephyr1 @Homaclese and many, many others have given stupendous advice that I have been leveraging daily. Now is the time we need your guidance! I’m going to break this up into 3 parts - Part 1 (Tanks), Part 2 (Flanks) and Part 3 (New Teams - Main and War defenses/Raid team). Granted, the flanks you chose are typically based upon your choice of tank, Part 2 will be driven by your choices in Part 1. The object is not to only figure out a main defense. A defense that keeps me in the Diamond level is mainly to get the better raid chest rewards. The key is the replace all the areas where Telluria and Vela played a huge roll in the success in the game - raids, wars, defense, tournaments, challenges and quests. And with the new features coming out (Ninja towers, new raid formations, and new war rules), new hero options are going to be needed to succeed in these events without the services of Telluria/Vela.

Part 1 (Tanks): From what I see, there are many good options, but, if I’m going to spend precious resources, ascension materials and emblems to redo all of my teams, I want to make solid decisions based upon the best options I have (or that most folks or more likely to have) which heros would have synergy with those tanks. Options I see are as follows:

Tanks

Dark/Purple

  • Kunchen (Cleric emblems)
  • Ursena (Sorcerer emblems)
  • Hel (Wizard emblems)
  • Clarissa (Paladin emblems)
  • Boss Wolf (Druid emblems)
  • Alfrike (Wizard emblems)
  • NEW Killhare (Fighter emblems)
  • NEW Zulag (Paladin emblems)

Holy/Yellow

  • Guinevere (Wizard emblems)
  • Justice (Paladin emblems)
  • Drake (Monk emblems)
  • Vivica (Cleric emblems)
  • Onatel (Wizard emblems)
  • Delilah (Fighter emblems)
  • NEW Sif (Rogue emblems)

Fire/Red

  • Black Knight (Barbarian emblems)
  • Gravemaker (Barbarian emblems)
  • Mitsuko (Sorcerer emblems)
  • Santa (Monk emblems)
  • NEW cElena (Rogue emblems)
  • NEW cAzlar (Paladin emblems)

Ice/Blue

  • Richard (Paladin emblems)
  • Thorne (Paladin emblems)
  • Aegir (Paladin emblems)
  • Ariel (Cleric emblems)
  • NEW Skadi (Monk emblems)
  • NEW cMagni (Druid emblems)

Nature/Green

  • Yunan (Fighter emblems)
  • Heimdall (Paladin emblems)
  • NEW Atmos (Barbarian emblems)
  • NEW Frigg (Rogue emblems)
  • NEW cKadilen (Sorcerer emblems)
  • NEW cElkanen (Barbarian emblems)

My thoughts for me and my roster

Dark/Purple - Kunchen and possibly Alfrike (for fast mana tournaments, raids and challenges)
Holy/Yellow - Guinevere (other options - Justice or Vivica)
Fire/Red - Gravemaker (other option - Mitsuko)
Ice/Blue - Aegir (other options - Richard or Thorne)
Nature/Green - Heimdall and possibly Frigg

What are your thoughts? Which element will reign supreme? This is key to helping to guide my alliance on our war tank future direction. Currently, we do Green tanks! :sob: I’m leaning toward Kunchen or Guinevere. If this makes sense, I need to move emblems around.

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Missing out on C.Kadilen (and even C.Elkanen).

They’re up there with Heimdall.

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This is why the nerf makes me sad — of all those possible tanks, I have Thorne (maxed for lack of blues, despite everyone saying he’s garbage) and Justice (sitting at 3/70, because everyone says she’s garbage I did a second Joon instead). I do have the costume for Elkanen, should I ever get enough tonics to finish him (green is the only color that has been kind for 5*s, so I have 4 maxed already, with Elk at 3/70 and Kadilen at 1/1 and three more Tellurias at 1/1).

That said, Telluria’s mana down was preserved, so she should still work as a tank. I’ve been using her on attack as the healer of the group, and may have to go back to Melendor for that, which makes me sad again… But I can’t have two wet noodles in a raid team, and Margaret at least delivers saving throws against snipers.

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I personally don’t think Telluria was nerfed as much to feel the difference in your regular attack.

130% to 90% means instead of doing 150 dmg to all, she will do 100 dmg to all.

274 HoT instead of 306 HoT means she will heal 16 less hp per turn.

Minion nerf means that your typical 1300 hp ally will have an extra meat shield of 117 hp, and not 169 hp.

These changes are minimal and I am pretty sure if the nerf wasn’t announced, people would barely notice. The main strength of Telluria is slowing down the attackers mana, buying your allies time to charge first and murder them. This perk is still in the game. It still plays the biggest factor. Together with her class and natural sturdiness, it will still make her top choice.

That said, I was experimenting with my defense teams this year. Was putting Kunchen back on tank, Mitsuko, GM. Frankly, the only difference was that I was attacked much more often, which caused my Tower resources to be stolen, but the amount of trophies I held was similar.

I don’t think the changes to heroes will play as much factor in getting people to use different tanks as the changes to emblem economics. But that update’s impact will only be seen in couple months, not immediately. I think we will see green tanks on wars for a while still, and only chance to shake things up are the new war rules.

As for war tank selection if you’re searching for alternatives, couple thoughts:

  • Blues are overall bad tanks - green has strong selection of easily accessible heroes, many dispels which murder blues strongest tank - Aegir
  • Reds have nice tanks but all of them are rare; and the other problem is, GM and Mitsuko have powers that are element specific - which wouldn’t play as much factor in wars where people bring their entire rosters and not only counters. All BK alliance with Zeline on flank would be murderous, but I’d be surprised if there was any alliance with such roster
  • Purples - Ursena again is the mistress, but being element specific makes her a bit less impactful on wars. Kunchen… I don’t know, I feel the times we put healers on our tanks are over. His -defense is nice but at slow speed there are now too many options to counter it… Malosi for yellows, Grazul or JF for reds etc… Alfrike - didn’t test her on tank as she’s only on 12 talent in my roster. But I don’t recall having issues taking her down on raids, except of course rush tournaments. When she’s on 15+ I will do some tests with my regular raid defense. Some advantage for purples is that yellow is still the weakest color, but does it matter that much for wars, idk.
  • Yellows - Strength of the tank selection here is that they are not element specific (well Guin kind of is partially, but that’s not the scary part of what she does). Problem is, beside Guin, they are all kind of mediocre and can’t survive better than average board. Most of them are time buyers, so strong selection of heroes behind them is mandatory. But as they are not as sturdy as Telluria, you need heroes which are both durable and have kill potential. Such mix may be hard to compose.
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Consider that SGG announced they were ready to nerf Telly indefinitely if they felt like it. Let’s say she will become unusable after some point.

My roster allows me to choose between Onatel, GM, LotL (in the distant future, I lack three tonics) and Richard (he would take paladin emblems from Telly). None of those choice pleases me tbh. Onatel has the tankiest stats but her special is too unreliable for AI, GM is fast and punishing but I much prefer him on flank, Richard with emblems could be ok-ish but I have no costume so it’s still too weak for middle diamond. I built my defence team around green tank obviously so LotL could be a good choice (she even got an A as tank from Anchor) but I lack materials and I don’t like how she’s slow.

Heh that nerf complicated so much…

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I still like the red/blue/green trio in the center. However, blue has no good tank and BK is probably not available to most players. That essentially leaves the option to another green replacement if Telluria is eventually proven to be unsustainable as a tank with this latest nerf. Maybe we will see more Heimdall, Frigg, Yunan or even Atomos then.

KC and Guin are both good tanks for those without Telluria. But even with Telluria’s latest nerf, I still feel that they are outclassed at the tank position.

I am keen to find out what is the next green HOTM in January 2021. Maybe they will get us a more balanced green tank to replace Telluria. :joy:

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I’ve just raided a team that had Telluria flanked by both Guin and Kunchen. That wasn’t enjoyable :smiley:

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think alliances are probly wise leaving their defenses as is until new war rules roll out and emblem costs are lowered etc

think people are jumpin the gun right now

plus SG sayin they’ll continue to nerf the current defense heroes until they’re no longer used is a sign they have little to no faith the current adjustments will be enough to alter anything

we should wait n see how things play out

just my 2 cents

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@Eldente I haven’t had a real opportunity to look at any of the costume heros as tanks. I’ll look them over in the AM and see what stands out. I think cRichard and cVivica are the only real options and they’re not great as @Suicide_Bunny mentioned in her response.

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I think what gave green tanks the edge was Vela completely destroying reds. With that gone, and considering you no longer need do adapt to 2/3 of your alliance using Telly for wars because she’s unusable, I wouldn’t force green tanks. We all got used to RGB center with purple/yellow wings this year and reworking tank is one thing, but reworking entire defense to fit is another. We’ll all need to figure it out. I think playing flanks around colors countering the tank is the go to strategy. So red tank flanked by Zeline, blue tank flanked by GM etc. OR direct counters to strong color like Mitsuko or Ursena.

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As @Suicide_Bunny mentioned, the nerf may not be as bad as it first appears. But as @djmindcrasher says, SG is determined to keep nerfing Telluria/Vela until it’s domination on main defenses, war defenses and tournament teams drops greatly. Thus, now is the time to start thinking about how you will replace them in the future and where to use your emblems moving forward.

To me, the writing is on the wall. Similar to what @Suicide_Bunny is doing, I’m trying different options in raids, wars and tournaments to identify subtle replacements for Telluria (and Vela who I don’t own) before it becomes absolutely necessary. I’m leaning toward Kunchen or Heimdall, but I worry that a healer as a tank may be too passive of a defense for war or main. I guess I’ll need to play around with them to see how they hold up. When I have attacked teams with either as a tank, Heimdall has not really been a problem. While Kunchen has been tougher, but not overwhelming.

My suspicion is that I need to find the right flank-tank-flank combination to has the right synergy to hold up against the majority of attacking teams. So what would that be with a Kunchen tank or a Heimdall tank?

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Any aggresive fast (maybe average…) flank would do. What these hero do is quite similar - defense debuff or attack buff. Making your hitters hit more. Heimdall gets slight advantage because it is harder to dispell than to cleanse (especially if you take reds against him… anyone heard of red dispeller?). He also ‘heals’ regardless of whether the allies required to be healed or not. And finally, his class is better for a tank.

I don’t think Vela is the right flank anymore, but I am also not sure if snipers on flank are better. My experience placing emblemmed Costume Magni on defense in Vela’s place was actually favoring Vela (will see if this new nerf changes it). Good for blues is that the selection of solid snipers is pretty wide.

It’s actually interesting to experiment now around direct dmg vs AoE/DoT. Will snipers find their place in defense teams again? I recall a terrible raid series I had against a guy with C. Sartana, C. Joon and I think Kingston (or maybe Fenrir?), anyways 3 snipers which can ressurect. Don’t recall who the tank was, but even though it exploded pretty soon, I had really tough times keeping them down the ground.

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My thoughts exactly. Nobody cares about Telluria’s damage or dispelable HoT… All that makes her special is mana slow to all at average speed.

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What about the new purple hero of the month Zulag as a possible Tank?

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Think she’ll make an amazing tank. Better than Kunchen most likely…

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I am not sold on her. Can be dispelled/blocked too easily. Makes her way too passive.

Sure, good class, elemental link making her a bit more durable, but overall I think she’s worse than Kunchen. At least he heals directly and cleanses, which is useful in variety of scenarios. Zulag can be played around way too easy. I see her as option for those who do not have Kunchen, but can’t imagine having trouble with her - especially having Malosi.

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she reminds me of aeron

anyone recall him being a good tank?

think the age of passive tanks went off the rails sometime back imo

if passive tanks were so good then we would still see ares tanks, more kunch and less ursena, more heimdall and less telluria, more aegir tanks, more vivica/cvivica and less guin/drake yellow tanks, etc etc

not sayin passive tanks can’t hold diamond cups

but they do offer more recovery time on a below average board which makes them less reliable for defensive wins than aggressive tanks

if purple tanks become popular again, i expect ursena to still remain the queen outside of vfast tourneys & wars

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Great response @Suicide_Bunny!

I agree! The changes will hurt some, but not to the point where wars and raids will complete fall apart. But the writing is on the wall the Telluria and Vela are eventually going to be nerfed to a point of being useless. If not today or next month, it will happen at some point. If you are not thinking about alternative ps now, you’re not being very smart.

Agree with this as well. I really only have 2 viable options and neither is great - Raffaele or Aegir. Raffaele’s mana is too slow. Although, his healing is substantial. Aegir is just too easy to defeat. Thus, Blues are not an option at this time. IMO. Possibly, the new heros coming out over th3 next 3 months may provide an option “if” I am actually able to pull them.

Red had options. Blank Knight is a pain to attack. If the boards are bad, you will lose. With the right flanks, the battle can go on forever - advantage BK. Unfortunately like most folks, I don’t have BK. Thus, Mitsuko is an option. Mitsuko+18 or great can be a pain, but will she hold up? My other option is Gravemaker, but I really prefer him on the flank.

I like the purple options. Ursena is a beast at tank! One of the best, but I don’t have her! I have already mentioned my feelings on Kunchen (who I do have). The only other option I have is Alfrike. She is a beast, but her very slow mana speed is a liability. When attacking her, it depends on where she is positioned which determines her real threat. If she’s in the tank or flank position, you nave to take her out early before she gets charged. If she is on the wing, she really is not a threat as you have plenty of time to take out the tank and one or more of the other heros before you have to focus on her. If I use her at tank, I feel like I need fast or very fast mana speed flanks to protect her. Joon, GM, other are options. If you fine a good combo of flanks that work, let us know.

I also agree with you here. Guinevere is really it, but it’s not overwhelming at all. Plus, there are really strong Purple counters. I feel a Yellow tank will be just asking for it!

Keep us posted on your test @Suicide_Bunny! While Telluria and Vela aren’t going away tomorrow, their days are truly numbered! Thanks! :wink:

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Agreed @Rigs, but I feel the writing is on the wall. It’s like when sharks take over your favorite swimming spot. Do you keep swimming there hoping you don’t get bit or do you start looking for a new swimming spot? I feel like the sharks are swarming around Telluria and Vela! Eventually, they will become shark-bait! Now is the time to start thinking about their replacements before it becomes too late to respond quickly. :shark:

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@JAWS1 I still think Telluria, even after nerfed for the 2nd time, will still be the best tank. I can’t recall a hero who betters her on defense stat. Her being paladin class greatly enhances her role as tank. Even when her damage skill multiplier and HoT and minion health are reduced, she would still kick as. @Suicide_Bunny correctly pointed out that her being nerfed is not really a huge impact to dethrone her as the premier tank and that Vela ain’t anymore ideal flanking Telly.

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