Tavern of Legends Improvements - share and discuss

Threads are getting scattered so am pulling them together.

Detailed Preview showing Bosses

@Phobos I believe was the first to post this one (merged below).

Premise being that, because of the roster mastery, it’s important to know which heroes / enemies you’ll be facing. There is precedence in that the map stages ALL show a preview of not just the mobs but the bosses being faced in advance.

This was something pointed out and requested several times in Beta Testing Feedback.

Not Lose Heroes on Loss or Disconnect

Also suggested by @Phobos
Because of the Roster Mastery it has been requested that players do not lose their heroes when they are disconnected from the server (either client or sgg side).
Can be expanded to not losing the heroes at all on losing.

Argument against this is that players can farm until they get a good run… But the penalty is obviously the loss of world energy for each attempt.

Another option is a soft disconnect. This is being trialled in Puzzle Combat (also by SGG) where disconnects “pause” the game & you restart at the same point where you left off.

Again this was raised & requested numerous times by beta testers in their feedback.

More Stages

Suggested originally by @TimRBoston

Essentially requested more stages (say 4600+ up to like 5600…?)

Replayable Stages / More Coins

Brought up several times in various spots requesting more coins…

Can be done by either:

  1. adding more stages
  2. allowing Replayable Stages (also gives more.challenge for the roster mastery thing)
  3. Upping coin rewards
  4. Add coins to other loot drops

Better Rewards

Currently only get Tavern Coins as rewards. I’ve seen a couple requests for better rewards including:

  1. adding emblem rewards
  2. ascension materials (culminating in say a 4* mat)

Better Odds

Obviously the most commonly requested change. Odds aren’t great for any of the Past HotM let alone Myztero.

Most common suggestion made in Beta was to add a “featured” couple of heroes with higher odds.

For non constructive venting about the Tavern Portal odds use this thread: Don't waste your time on legend! - Tavern Of Legends Vent Thread (Odds, Summons etc...)

Exclusion of Owned Heroes from Summon Gate

Essentially if you already own {x} old HotM, make the chance of summoning this hero = 0%

Suggestion by @PleasedPig

Moderator Note
For complaints and venting and request for better summon odds please use this thread: Don't waste your time on legend! - Tavern Of Legends Vent Thread (Odds, Summons etc...)

ISSUE 1 (Main ISSUE):

Having the limit of using every hero once means you need to plan carefully your teams. This is what also the event say… but how do you assume you can plan carefully if the game does not give any information about enemies?

It is like trying to do war attacks without knowing which hero your opponent is having before starting a battle.

You can say: well: players could share informations… Yes but I think it is a work-around not a solution. The game itself should pubblicly let players to have a preview of all the enemies they will found in every level (also locked ones) in order to be able to properly plan teams.

ISSUE 2:

Another thing: heroes used during lost battles should not be counted as used.
Why?
As someone stated elsewhere you could lose, for every reason, the connection and you could unfairly lose 5 heroes without actually doing the try until the end.

I understand why devs decided to do this choice… but it is a little unfair for various reasons (including possible connection issues, but it is not the only reason).

To devs: In order to implement “used only if battle ended with a win” you could introduce an hidden property “pending” that could be added with the property “used” (or whatever flag name or bit value you are internally use) so at the end of the battle the game will seek if “pending” is successfull or not (win / lose / no-response).

  • on pre-load battle selection screen (when player entering in the screen for choosing heroes to use) remove all pending status from pending heroes if any (this will happen when previous battle ended with no-response -> disconnection)
  • on pre-load battle: (“battle start”) apply pending status to heroes used
  • on battle result: check pending heroes. if(win): heroes flagged as used. If(lose) heroes removed from pending list

To mods: Please don’t merge this topic to other similar ones. For one reason: Visibility. Not having a in-game detail of enemies that player will encounter in this event is a VERY HUGE issue that can be compared to be a bug. Planning assumes public and accessible details that currently are not directly available in-game.

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Nice ideas. Maybe by 2050 we’ll see them live. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Only moneyyyyyy i spent lot of gems in one month and only get one 5 star hero

And suddenly lots of complaints about the pull rates. Lots of 3 star S1 heroes falling out the portal lol

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OT
Yeah. However this topic is focused on the Tavern of Portal EVENT, not the portal.
I underlined that 98,7 % of chance of getting only a s1 hero is hugely too much and a much more variety should be included in future (probably some 3* and 4* from s2 and/or s3, event… even a selection of them but having a variety of outcome [when not previous HOTM] and not having s1 heroes as the only outcome at 98,7% of chances.
End OT

I like the idea of having a separate thread for ideas and suggestions for future Taverns. Unfortunately this thread will soon be over run with posts regarding pulls and venting. Those comments should be merged into the main thread, in my opinion.

I’ll see if the moderators can set if up so we have a dedicated thread of ideas, suggestions on the mechanics of the event - not on the summons.

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Absolutely agree with you. I have complains too in the portal, but this topic is about the event and issues related to the event itself, so here they are off topic.

I posted this message with the intention of improving event and marking the fallbacks I see until now.

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There’s a reason this has not been implemented - fairness to all players. It is easily abused. Got a bad board? Disconnect and try again. Four heroes dead? Disconnect and try again. What sucks about that is that people who legitimately got disconnected lose out.

SG is working on something like this in their new game Puzzle Combat. It doesn’t apply to all facets of gameplay, but where it does work, it starts you at the same spot in the fight where you disconnected. I think the board, health and charge amounts are all consistent, or it may restart that wave - I forget.

But in the context of a bar fight, it doesn’t make sense to get your heroes back if you lose the fight. What makes more sense to me is that you keep your heroes in the state they finished the fight. (I think that the same should be true of alliance war, but now I’m getting off topic). This would mean that if you wanted to, you could bring a dead hero to a fight and revive them. So what would make more sense is to limit the number of battle items you could use(you don’t get to go back outside mid-fight to replenish your stock), and perhaps limit the number of heroes you can pick from (they can’t all fit in the tavern).

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Since I don’t rant and I’m considering my post to be a suggestion for Taverns I improvement, I’ll post my thoughts here instead of the master thread (with rants).

Since I don’t buy gems to chase heroes (I’ll do a 10x pull, just won’t keep trying), and with the chance of getting a decent heroes being so low, this event without the reward of an ascension isn’t worth doing for me.

The first five levels were a fun novelty of using unleveled heroes but the last five levels weren’t enough fun to encourage me to to it again next month. I’d rather use my WE farming for items I can actually use.

Since I was conservative (saving way too many strong heroes for the end), I needed to use some precious mana pots for my healers.

I’m giving it a pass next month unless an ascension is added.

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Nice Ideas especially having the chance to preview the enemies

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Infact my purpose is to not count heroes used when battle is lost, regardless if it is for disconnection or simply losing the battle.
The main reason of NOT counting used heroes on lost battles was to prevent players that experienced disconnection to be punished for this. But this actually not the only reason, but only the main one.
Another reason could be hero roster requirement. Currently in order to complete event (if you finish all stages at first try) you need 50 heroes. That is a pretty huge number. And if you lose the number increase.
I think the requirement of 50 heroes is already demanding and don’t actually need to be increased anymore.
@princess1 yeah I agree. Infact I only doing the event only for fun of completing it (and collecting coins). I will do no summons this month and I will save coins for the future. However I would say that the challenge idea itself is fun. Hoping they will add more variety in portal and possibily also ascension chest

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I feel this event was way too easy, although a great way for beginners to have a chance at hotm without to much effect in roster requirements is probably the only advantage here really.

My suggestion for future ToL’s would be to keep it as it is which allows opportunities for these lower leveled players at these hotm
BUT
Add a further 10 stages to it where they get truely harder as you go and offering ascerion items and better rewards from that point onwards.
But I would also add a catch to it when it comes to the heroes side of it.

Currently you only get to use heroes once weather you win or lose.

But what if you only couldn’t reuse heroes when you lost the battle and if you won then those heroes live to fight another day. Even taken 1 step further for extra excitement and only lose those heroes that died (got killed) during any battle and ones that survived live to fight another battle.

This would mean that those extra 10 stages would only be able to be done still using those same 50 heroes and those 50 heroes would need to keep winning or stay alive to continue past the current 10 stages, keep losing matches and lesson your chances at reaching the 20th stage. Once you have lost 50 heroes thus (50 heroes have ben killed) over all duri g this event your out and can’t continue onto the next stage.

I feel this could bring a completely new outcome and interest into this kind of event and also really display the good from average players.

There could be some sort of feature reward attached to one’s icon image in a corner like a trophy type thing showing this player is one that completed this event which would bring even more challenge into wanting to complete it.

I feel unlike many other games this game lacks the ability to display players that do well in completing difficult challenges and/or events and like in many other games these types of displays attract interest in wanting to do better so they show off their achievements in a game.
Just having the top 100 on a leaderboard just isn’t enough anymore when there is so much involved in both game play and money.

Anyway @Phobos, I hope this contributes to your feature thread on the future outcome of this event and bring in new ideas.

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First of all I think the difficulty is quite challenging at this current state. My personal perception is that only very small number percentage of playerbase can find this event easy.
About this point i will link my personal thinks I posted in the other topic:

https://forum.smallgiantgames.com/t/tavern-suggestion/185169/6

Saying that I must admit am not sure I understood completely your idea.

I agree, Benn. It feels like it would make the event irrelevant to allow heroes to be reused. This event really isn’t about pulls and that’s what makes it interesting for C2P players like myself. I don’t have a massive roster but if you use a little logic and some items then you can easily make it through without much trouble. I didn’t use any ascended heroes for the first 5 stages. Only on stage 5 did I lose a battle, but since I had only used 1/1 heroes, I didn’t care. I used the same method all the way through and ended up not using 11 of my top 15 heroes because I simply didn’t need them. I only have 107 slots for heroes too, so it’s not like I had 250+ like lots of players.

I would say, with this event, don’t get too caught up in making it easier. Try to find a workable strategy and adjust as you go. This is about hero “mastery” as they put it and not simple dominations. If C2P and F2P don’t lose a few rounds then SG is not doing their job and it’s kind of a time wasting and pointless exercise.

I do, however, wish that they had mixed up the heroes we faced a little bit. You can’t put Alby and Seshat in the intro and then have us not face them in the game. That was kind of lame. They had a huge roster to pull from but left it on the bench. I’m sure they’ll use them in future Tavern events but the could have just gone for different combos instead of throwing repetition at us.

Even though this isn’t about pulls, I’m still putting in my two cents. E & P is like a casino when it comes to pulls. Nothing is promised and, like a slot machine or roulette wheel, it is geared to randomness. Would I like more 5*? Sure. But the game literally warns us what the % chances are of pulling a hero class so we know what we’re getting into. Zypher even does a reminder not to chase heroes and gives us a statistical breakdown. If you’re a big spender with cash to burn, chase to your hearts content. If you’re not independently wealthy, you should probably be smart enough to know that 98.7% chance of a season 1 “Classic” hero means that unless you dropped a lot of real $ you’re almost certainly getting a 3/4 season 1 hero.

If you get Karil like I did. It just means you have some good food for your current blue that needs to get leveled.

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It isn’t difficult.
In it’s current state you don’t get to use heroes twice weather you win or lose a match.

As you stated in your OP

Your all about find reasons why heroes shouldn’t be disguarded once used but at the same time looking for new ideas or ways that could change that.

This was my contribution

WHAT this means is;

Instead of every hero not being able to be reused again as it currently stands.

Only heroes that have been killed during a match are not reusable, those heroes that have survived the battle weather you won or lost can be reused into another battle.

In real life wars, every surviving warrior/soldier gets to fight another day weather they won or lost that war, dead soldiers don’t.

Correct and I agree but this is also only the some of player, as veteran players find it easy, but my suggestion

doesn’t change any of that for those players but instead adds onto it for those veteran players looking for more difficult challenges.

As stated here

My suggestion of better rewards for harder stages past the current 10 goes with this above suggestion.

My thoughts exactly.

I didn’t know about that thread till after I posted the above one which is why I linked to it earlier.

I kind of wish who we faced each level was randomized.

I purposely didn’t look up who I was going to be fighting before each battle and just tried to build teams with decent synergy. I used 3s for levels 1-5, 4s for levels 6-8; and 5*s for the final two levels.

Levels 5, 8 and 10 were each challenging and level 10 was a slug fest as not knowing the trio I’d face I went heavy on healers (North, Telly, Ariel) and didn’t have much hitting power and didn’t have the right colour combos. I didn’t time it but it felt like it took nearly 10 minutes to finish… which was cool as at the end, it actually felt like I’d been challenged a bit.

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Yeah. What do I don’t understand is the “use the same 50 heroes” step that is not clear to me… About the other points: I am not against introducing different layers of difficulties (quite the opposite): I am only pointing that certain level of difficulty can be fun and playable only for a small percentage of players (probably those one that does very high score on events and giving huge loots).

This not means, however, that those players (even if low percentage) should not be considered, and your idea could a way to add fun also for all of you.

I was thinking about summoning odds as a new player tht my luck didnt help me so much :wink:

I like the idea of seeing who you are up against prior to starting the match, and agree that not knowing who you are up against means you can’t properly plan which heroes to use.

Following on from that though, I agree with another poster that there was not much variety in the bosses and it was the same few that were being faced. Which meant that you did have an idea of who you were facing by the time you were reaching the higher levels.

I presume that next time it will be a different set of heroes to face and featuring another hero other than Gravemaker.

If, as was suggested above, there was much more variety in the bosses, then it becomes more essential to know who you are facing before the battle starts.

As frustrating as it is to lose a match due to a bad connection (I had an annoying issue a few months back that kicked me out rather frequently during titan hits) being allowed to reuse heroes when a connection is lost is far too easily abused.

Not sure about the suggestion of reusing heroes who survive, though if they are in the same state as at the end of the match it could be interesting. Having them reused in a fresh and new state will just turn it into another event where players just take their best teams in and sweep through all the levels like usual.

That being said, I did find this event a lot easier than expected. The best teams I can muster are a couple of 3600 TP. My aim for the event was to get to and hopefully complete the 3800 level. I was very surprised to find myself at the final level with all 11 of my fully ascended 4 star heroes still left unused.

For the first few levels I was using unascended 3 star heroes and it wasn’t until level 7 that I really started to struggle.

So with that in mind, I would not be unhappy to see some extension to this event with some harder levels and just continuing until you run out of heroes to use. Admittedly I would not get much farther since I only had 5 heroes left when I completed the event, but for players who have been around longer and have larger rosters that could be fun.

I am fully on board with the ascension mats chest being added. I can always use more shots at getting mats. :slight_smile:

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