Tank Buster's Bonus

We are a mixed-level alliance. We have a few lower level players who get disheartened and often feel they have to apologize for not getting as many points in war as the higher players, when in reality Tank-busting is a HUGE help, but isn’t accurately reflected on the score board. There is a bonus for the small teams “cleaning up”, but not for starting the fight and making it easier for middle level teams to take out the enemy’s higher level teams.

My idea is to have a small bonus for the tank being cleaned in one hit. Make the 3rd position hero worth more points in the overall team score (not including the defeated bonus) such that killing the center hero is worth more than just its stats. Not sure what math we would need or would be fair.

That’s really not a terrible idea. I don’t know what the value of each hero is, or if they are weighted… but the tank should be of the highest value if it isn’t weighted already.

However, the person who destroyed the tank should get the bonus, rather than the person who cleaned up.

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Hero point value depends on total health of the hero as far as i know

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Yes that is exactly how I feel.

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SG has already made a change to better reflect the importance of tank busting. The bonus for the kill used to be the same as the points for killing all the heroes. They changed it to the bonus points equaling 1/3 of the total amount instead of 1/2. This gives more points to those that bust tanks or almost take out a team.

Besides this, perhaps your alliance mates don’t understand that war is a team sport. It doesn’t matter who makes the kill as long as the score is higher in the end.

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They very much recognize it’s a team effort, that is why they feel they have to apologize for not contributing as much to the TEAM. The score at the end isn’t always higher, and that is usually when the unnecessary guilt is heaviest.

This doesn’t sound like they weighted the center hero differently than the other 4 within the points available for the team (minus the kill points). I’m asking that the center hero be worth more than just their health would weight them (if @Rigs is correct in his comment) or whatever stat weights how many points each hero is worth to make killing the center hero completely worth more, so tank busters feel they are contributing more than the score currently reflects.

Well see the scoring works as follows last i heard:

An entire alliance is worth 1500 points

That 1500 points is distributed amonst all the alliance’s teams

The teams with higher total health are worth more points than the teams with less health

Now when hitting a team, you get x amount of points based on how much damage u did(how much health “points” you took away from the other team)

Which would mean that taking out a higher health hero is worth more points than killing a hero that has less total health. Idk if it was ever explained exactly that way but pretty much way it works from my understanding.

If you kill a hero that has a total health of 3500. And another player kills a hero in the same team that has total health of 3k, the 3500 will have rewarded more points to the 1st player

This is how fleeing during field aid or before big heals became a war tactic, because if a team heals and u die then you decrease the point value you had already earned up to that point

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We treat our cleanup crews/tanks bursters like heros. We call them out for successful tank busts. We really cut back on pointing out score except when someone goes 6-0.

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That doesn’t seem like they actually realize what they’re doing is important to the alliance. If they still apologize for the lower points, then they’re not understanding that individual points are moot. It’s the entire score that gets the win.

To be clear, I run 2 accounts in war. I have my main that is the heavy hitter taking out 4-6 4k teams each war. My 2nd is my tank busting account. This one has mainly 4* heroes with only 5* heroes in the defense. With this I also take on 4k teams.

While my main obviously scores better, both accounts are normally in the top 10 list for the war. It’s not that my alliance mates are horrible, but tank busting can get you respectable points.

This. You said it so much better than I. We do this as well. It draws our players together instead of dividing. Yes, they still try to get top scorer but it’s a friendly competition instead of needing to feel ‘useful’.

This is all well and good, but at the end of the day, if you see a score of 396 as the top hitter, several scores above 200, and you scored 75 points because all you did was kill tanks and get 13-20 points here or there, you do feel like you’re not contributing as much. Regardless of how much we praise all of our allies, regardless of what their level is. I think to give them a boost for killing tanks since the team who is going in after and finishing is getting the defeated bonus is only fair, since sometimes that team only finished off the enemy because of the tank buster. Total points should still follow what @Rigs shared (which is brilliant information, so thank you, sir), but weighted within the team of 5 heroes. I think the center hero should weigh more. So each health point reduction on the center hero is worth 1.4Xhealth weight (as an example) and the other 4 are worth .9Xhealth weight or whatever the math needs to be. So like if the enemy is all maxed Magni, for example, with all the same troop for same health bonus, no emblems, Magni 1, 2, 4, and 5 would be worth 15 points each, Magni 3 (in the center) would be worth 20 points (or something like that) so that tank buster can see a bit more on the scoreboard than they do now, but teams capable of a one shot would see the same number of points for clearing the team because the team is still worth the 80 points total. Tank busters just see a bigger piece of the pie.

I do not think this is an Alliance issue. It’s a numbers issue.

Also, I disagree. Individual points are not moot. I think of individual points toward a team score a lot like I do the K/D ratio in FPS games like Halo. When you’re playing online team fighter games like capture the flag, you want to kill at least as many times as you were killed, that way you individually are not putting your team behind. Likewise, you want to put up the strongest defense you can in war so that you are not giving away more points than you can claim in War. Smaller teams are probably naturally going to give away more points than they can claim because they mostly tank bust or get scraps. The largest teams try to make up that deficit by not getting one-shot on defense and eating up more flags and killing big teams for big points. The middle teams are really where the rubber hits the road. This is something I explain to members frequently with my advice “Try to score at least 3X what you’re worth on the board”. chances are there will be 3-4 (sometimes 5 or 6 if the enemy is really having a good day and you’re a smaller player) times that your defense will fall. So if you score at least 3X what you’re worth, you’re on average keeping the team in the green points wise.

I just want it to be easier for smaller teams to be able to score points for making important contributions. If you disagree, just don’t vote. I know my alliance mates shouldn’t feel like they are a burden, and I try to validate their efforts. It’s difficult when the numbers they are looking at tell them a different story.

Logically, small teams and those just learning strategy should not expect to earn as many points as someone with 30+ fully leveled 5* heroes. Unlike golf there’s no handicap. You get x amount of points for what you did. Also, not a big fan of participation trophies just to make new players feel important. That may sound harsh, but realize wars and titans are team sports. It’s not about the individual points.

Actually, this forum is a place to discuss the pros and cons of a proposal. It’s not about voting or not voting.

Please note, I’m not totally against this… I’m just not seeing the real benefit (yeah, I know… so newer players will feel important. I get that.). I’m actually seeing a negative as it would take points away from those assigned to cleanup duty. They would be getting even less points which could frustrate those that don’t understand that the W in the win column is what’s important. So, make those that hit the team first feel better while taking points away from those with the less-than-glorious job of cleanup. Again, not seeing the benefit.

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I’m not saying they should get as many points as much stronger teams, just more than they are getting now when larger teams are riding on the efforts of the smaller teams tank busting a lot, and they get a bonus for cleanup, so why can’t the tank buster get more for the very important work they did (also, sometimes as a stronger player, I am a tank buster so smaller teams can clean up because I have more heroes and deeper benches, and now they see more points than me… it just needs to be more balanced)

Ideas & Feature Requests IS about voting… that’s why there is a voting button. I’m not saying don’t discuss, but you seem to be taking the conversation to other places than the idea itself (like alliance support and how great your own alliance is. This is fine to share in general, but the idea itself should be discussed here)

GOOD! Then it’s more balanced. Clean up GETS a bonus. When there is only one hero left from a long hard fought battle by a large player (and it happens a lot during Field Aid wars it seems) the bonus the team is worth at the end stays the same regardless of the health left on the battlefield. Clean up teams know EXACTLY how many points they are going to walk away with, and can pick and chose accordingly (to some extent). You don’t really know how your efforts are going to be rewarded for tank busting. I busted a middle team that was tanking Kiril with other 5* in the remaining positions and got 12 points once. Can you imagine if all 6 of your flags were only 12 points? Kiril was the healer for that team, so getting rid of him made finishing of the middle50-60pt team much easier for the remaining 40+ points? How can that be considered balanced? I want to take points from clean up teams. They are still guaranteed the bonus for finishing off the remainder of the enemy and currently riding on the coat-tails of tank-busters (myself included).

Edit: I forgot to mention this one in my lengthy comments-

Clean-up is a glorious job! You get bonus points! You get the satisfaction of seeing the word “Victory”!Your efforts get to result in resets. Everything about cleaning-up gets glorified.

Actually, I only agreed with @ItsaDragon. The observation of how his (her??) alliance handles the point difference was great.

This may be part of the problem. Why are your smaller teams tank busting for the larger teams? That’s a waste of Flags and heroes. The larger teams should go in to either 1-shot or tank bust for the smaller teams to clean up. If your alliance is sending in your smaller teams to tank bust, it’s not surprising they get little points.

Again, this shows that players in your alliance are going for their personal points instead of team points. They shouldn’t be looking at how many points they can get for themselves.

I’ve had those wars. Can’t remember if they were wins or losses but I knew the points went to the team and made it easier for the next player.

Don’t you mean you want to get points for your alliance? Again, sounds like you’re not looking at the big picture. A win is a win. It doesn’t matter where the points come from. All points give are bragging rights that you got more than another of your alliance mates.

Wont 1 shots still get even more points and put us back in the same scenario?

I mean if i 1 shot 6 teams with your tank bonus in place, my score is still going to look significantly higher than the ones that just tank busted

I’m assuming he’s talking about having the total for the 5 heroes the same. Just make the wings less points than the flanks and the flanks worth less than the tank. Otherwise, you are correct.

It has to do with online availability and available heroes. Some smaller teams have excess of tank-busting color, but lack rainbow depth, so they can go in with 5 Berdens on a blue tank, but can’t make 6 full rainbow teams. My husband was one of those, and still kind of is with purple heroes (he just has so many). They also do clean-up in the same way, but if they don’t have any gold heroes for the Rigard leftover, we’d rather send them in to bust a tank on a low-mid level team. But maybe you’re just better at war than us :woman_shrugging:

I’ll restate my advice that I give to them, try and get as many points as you are giving the enemy. If everyone accomplishes this, we will not lose. (and we often do accomplish this)

1500 points is 1500 points no matter who is getting them. But one job is really hard compared to the other. Why should one see a bonus, and not the other?

To be fair, my alliance has not gone full strategy mode in a couple months. It seems pointless to care and get frustrated with one another when real life gets in the way. However, this is something I have thought about for a while, and a common complaint with a lot of my alliance mates. And if any members clean up after themselves for lack of better options, the whole idea becomes really pointless. I think you and I have different ways of doing war, and that is our biggest disagreement.

But thank you for clarifying @Rigs 's question.

This is where we agree. I have seen so many players talk about how many points they personally get or don’t get. They forget it’s a team sport. It’s been discouraged in our alliance as it leads to discord, but we do congratulate great scores, terrific tank busts, etc.

Here’s where we differ:

  1. The PLAYER isn’t getting the bonus. That’s for the alliance. Just like titans.

  2. I never take the ‘easy’ job of cleanup. I tank bust or 1-shot when I can. It’s not for any personal ‘glory’. I just know it makes it easier on our smaller teammates. If I can take that burden then we have a better chance of winning. We open that war chest together.

This is our strategy… it’s very simple:

  1. If we’re lucky enough to get 5 or more teams under 3800 tp, we use the reset timer to get easier points. This is very rare tbh.

  2. We normally get matched with alliances that have all but 2-4 teams under 4k. Of those, the lowest is usually in the 3800 range. In this scenario our only rule is to make good opponent selection.

  3. In any scenario, we leave wounded for our cleanup teams. We don’t assign hits or even assign players as cleanup teams. We’re adults and know our teams. Everyone knows if they have the teams to cleanup, tank bust or 1-shot.

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Like everyone we have our cleanup crews, tank busters and heavy hitters.
Each member within the alliance started out as a low lever player and grew, thus each higher levelled player understands that lower levels need to be felt both important and useful so they don’t get discouraged.

Due to time zones our alliance works in groups of 3 or 4 according to thier matching time zones paired in teams consisting of heavy, mid and cleanup crew, these teams work out when come on and work together.

It is up to the heavy hitters or if you prefer the more experienced players to help and involve the lower level players at all times and make them feel good about thier contribution in the war. This may also mean knowing what their roster is to help them choose teams to better to their part.

Wars are totally an Alliance team work aspect and without it you are lost. It’s not about how many points one individual player gets but instead it’s about getting more points than your opponents.
Eventually “like us” everyone will learn and their role or when their teams are best suited and should be used as we are all mature aged players and not kids, but just the same they enjoy coming in and communicating during wars and having fun with it together instead of just coming in alone, doing your hits and leaving.

It seems based on the majority of your comments that all your worried about is the points which you feel will make the lower levelled players feel better about themselves this is a completely wrong way of looking at things.

It doesn’t matter who gets what points as that doesn’t give you better rewards in the end, it doesn’t make you a better player and won’t teach you how to work as a team. It’s nothing more than a visual stats keeping board.

One thing I do know is when a lower player eventually does start to hit the 100’s plus they will get excited and mention it in the chatbox and that’s when you congratulate them a bit more for their achievement.

If a player feels bad or feels the need to appologise for hits that didn’t work out then that is on the experienced players back for making them feel like they could have done better and not because they didn’t get a better score.
Let me ask you; does a heavy hitter appologise for not wiping out a team on their first attempt or not doing as well in this war as they did in the last? Every war is different and in this one you will do great and in the next not get one.

My suggestion is; stop worrying about the points and concentrate more at working on teamwork and finishing with the higher winning score as a whole.

It doesn’t matter how you word it, debate it, twist it, These tank bonus points your looking to change around won’t change the outcome in the end and thus are really unimportant.

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Honestly i just popped in to explain how the point system works and help clarify that

But now I’ve got popcorn,…how did this happen lol

1571692275588

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