Stop caring about Wars

Even with other abilities greatly increasing in potency, in various cases, hero/card power does not even adequately reflect an increase in stats.

If another factor is to be presented in a calculation, an assessed value for this factor could be presented and the calculation could be presented. :+1:

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Thanks, BobTheSnark. This is definitely very convincing and miles off from what i read. Since i trust you, i believe you - only, it is not something i am worried about. I mean, not yet. Also, the special skills are now not as extreme as they used to be. Doesn’t that make the power creep a bit more acceptable?

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The comment you’re responding to didn’t contain a question at all, but a difference between an opinion and a claim (which you clearly don’t understand seeing how you try to portray it as a question). So you’re either intentionally misconstruing it, lying, or simply can’t keep up. But I understand why someone like you would do such a thing so I’m gonna bow out of this and ignore your nonsense going forward.

This.
talk of powercreeps and irrelevant spreadsheets aside, this is what is happening. War used to be fun, the most fun aspect of being in an alliance. Alliances that strategised and worked together and really put in time and effort saw reward for their efforts (in the form of a win - literal rewards have always been poor). Now - it is much easier to win/lose depending on the collective good/bad boards alone and that is no fun.
So little is the fun (and reward for effort) that I permanently opt out of war. I am far enough along that I can complete the POV/POG without it, and I don’t care for the bonus chests at the end - I’ve plenty of clean cloth thank you.
So, when players in my alliance struggle with war or it starts to frustrate them and leave them feeling negative about the game, I encourage them to opt out for a while and see if that changes how they feel. Most eventually opt back in, but in the time they are out they have the same experience as me - that is, I have time for events and put more effort into them because I’m not frustrated by bad war boards which inevitably led me to putting down the game and attending to something else. My growth in game is better, because I complete more and get more free Dawa’s than before.
We are a teamwork oriented alliance and complete all alliance events, so as that kind of personality that enjoys teamwork, it is only natural to feel guilty with a poor performance (regardless of if it’s my fault or not). As a player on the verge of quitting, I can now say I enjoy it as much as I did years ago because I don’t have to care about war.
If it’s not fun, DON’T DO IT!

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you’re waaaaay off into the left field….over the fence…through the corn field…across the highway and gone into the distance.

:point_up:

Sorry but I got a chuckle :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

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Er - what do we mean by “extreme”? Mostly, I would not consider older Specials more … extreme.

(There may be the odd exception, like Proteus or Hel/cHel, but generally)

Consider:

  • Isarnia (vanilla): Slow, 235% damage to all, -44% defense to all 6 turns; family bonus very minor stat bumps IF multiple S1 heroes used

  • Frigg (vanilla): Fast, 100-244% damage to all, depending on tiles, -8% to -44% defense to all depending on tiles, 3 turns; family bonus, all allies get small scaling heal when this hero hits low health

  • Ma’at (vanilla): Fast, 195% damage to all, -34% defense to all 3 turns, attack down to red; “passive” 50% chance for additional 70% to all and attack down to all; family bonus chance to blind and burn DoT to any foe dealing Special damage

  • Isarnia (toon): Slow, 385% damage to all, -34% defense down to all, extra damage to Fire; same family bonus as vanilla but passive IMMUNE TO DANG NEAR EVERYTHING LOL (“75%” :wink: resistance to ailments, dispels, mana cuts)

also Isarnia gets Superior wizard talent for 20 emblems. which means dispelling buffs for free on Specials OR normal attacks

  • Starwalker: Fast, never misses, 200% damage to all, extra damage to foes w/boosted health, -35% defense to all and tags foes for flat additional damage if ailment removed; passives immune to poison and shares damage with allies; family bonus chance to auto-dispel a buff from any foe who deals Special damage to this hero

A couple notes:

Purely on a % basis, I’d say these heroes are not getting weaker/less “extreme” — if anything I’d say they are getting stronger even before taking into consideration rather significant stat differences.

Another obvious difference is how much each hero does: Specials do more and more and “passives” and “family bonuses” (and Superior Talents for S1 heroes, which matter more for heavily costumed, upgunned-stats versions) can be significant and even sometimes outweigh (especially older) Specials.

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Thank you Bob for your customarily insightful and thought-provoking contribution. I absolutely agree about power creep in specials but see family bonuses as more of a neutral factor as, certainly as S1 heroes are concerned, they deal with percentages.

While an increase in potency in specials has disproportionately risen, so have core stats, and the power stat presented can often be disproportionately low for new heroes.

BobTheSnark

Okay, okay, got your point. You fished out toons and they are something else. Starwalker is probably the most op hero i came across. Gosh, i do want that guy so badly…but he is not your average run of the mill hero. Take any of the Hotm that came out this year, and its an entirely different story. Hubby just maxed Bo and runt, and he likes them, sort of, but nothing very special. And these were the kind of heroes i was thinking about. Maybe i shouĺd have added ‘Goblins, elves, owls and toons excluded’… it took me…well, up to very recently till i got a Goblin and an owl. Constructs were easier to obtain though. Still waiting for one of those truly elusive elves.

I think, like most things in life, things will eventually move towards the middle. Super cool, but op heroes will remain far and few, and most heroes will become slightly more powerful (i hope) - but somewhere someone will take it back to wars.

Did horrendously bad this time, but very well last time, so to me things are pretty much as they used to be (with wars).

The top Raid player today has 3800 trophies.

I lag 700 behind that, and yet almost every team im offered as an opponent has multiple elves, owls, goblins and constructs. From those 4 families we have a lot of OP beasts, and Ive managed to pull 1 solitary owl (just recently, not levelled yet).

The matchmaking just feeds you overpowered teams for what you can realistically compete against, and the gap between these 4 families and the kind of teams I can put together is huge. Sure i can reroll a lot, but that can be a costly and frustrating experience at times.

In Wars, we are seeing lower scores than ever before because players are packing their defensive team with any strong hero they can land, with 2LB and Memblems added. Once youve used your best heroes, you are having to fight these sides with LB1s and non-Memblemmed heroes from your wider roster and they just cannot compete. Defence has overtaken attack significantly but that is not as much fun for players because its a passive experience.

I dont know what the solution is, but I know that the game feels less balanced to me now than when I started, and is less fun for my alliance than when I joined them.

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Prospero,

I agree with you to a point. I can usually field 2 very good teams, and 2 that are good enough - and then there are 2 teams that rarely win. So i keep summoning so that eventually i can field 6 teams. Only, it just doesn’t matter cause i can’t level in a day.
So yeah, i see the problem.

However, then there is the game with towers and challenge events and whatnot - stuff that wasn’t there 5 years ago. And on balance i prefer Empires in its current form. That’s all i can say -

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Choice is nice. I play most events.

My hope is they dont rush to make them all like that last Gargoyle mess.

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I have not read the whole discussion so excuse me if i miss something. I will just focus on this specific part:

By the time you manage to summon enough heroes for 6 strong teams, level, LB1/2 and (M)emblem them, they release at least 50 new OP heroes (a made up number, different for different players and their ability to summon and level heroes at their own speed/luck).

The thing is Defenses only need 5 OP heroes, while Attackers need 30 same quality or close to that OP heroes, if we talk about wars. This is where it gets bad. Because average Joe in E&P can’t keep up with such numbers at the speed they keep releasing new OP heroes every week. You somehow manage to get lucky and summon 2-3-4 decent 5*s past two-three months but then for that time they release five times more new OP heroes.

I checked a thread here on Forum yesterday that follows heroes’ releases. I can tell you past year, maybe year and a half, number of 5*s that have been released has been enormous, compared to previous years. No need to say most of them are OP, compared to old(ish) heroes and probably all of them are in competitive defenses. You won’t see many old heroes in current META defenses.

So with all that being said, not only there is power creep, but it it is here with rapid tempo of releasing new OP heroes every portal that comes. Which is why players simply can not keep up, even heavy spenders. Our player base has shrug from 2,5m to around 600k active players that take part in tracking events. This is for a period of 2 - 2,5 years time. SG doesn’t stop, they even accelerate the rapid releasing of heroes and i am expecting maybe another 200k players to leave in the next year.

EDIT - i will link a couple threads for anyone who is interested to observe the changes.

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At least we can all look forward to 3LB, Upgrading Legendary Troops and Dominion of :dog2::poop:.

Sorry, Dragons.

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The evidence is right there in the alliance quest portal.


The numbers speak for themselves.

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but if they quit, what will they have to complain about? I’m sure some of them are still complaining about their Pong feed.

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Sorry Samantha,
but the power creep accelerated last year. It started with new event heroes and spread to the HotMs starting with Areax.
Have a look at a few HotMs from the last years:


We have to subtract 100 power because of the emblems from all but Reuben. From Reuben its only 45.

  • Frida, first half of 2019 → 770 power
  • Reuben, 12/2020 → 782 power
    Thats 12 points in some 18 months, equals 2/3 of a point per month.
  • Russel, 10/2022 → 795 power
    Thats 13 points in 10 months, equals 1.3 points per month or a doubling of the power creep compared to 2020.
  • Morax, 11/2022 → 812 power
    Thats 17 points in 13 months, equals still 1.3 points per month.
  • Neema, 11/2023 > 891 power
    Thats 79 (!) points in 12 months, equals 6.6 points per month, thats rounded a factor 5 in power creep compared with 2030 and 2021.
    And now to 2024:


Uthragan is from October 2023, Bo&Runt from May 2024, thats a difference of 7 months and 64 points, equals 9.15 points per month.
We now have a power increase in one month what we had in one year until 2023.
I have no idea how that could be decelerated again. If it continues, we will have some Power hyper inflation soon.

Happy gaming

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Agree with Gimliv,

These last three months especially have been an absolute shock, plus the insane balance updates.

These heroes have ballooned.

Uwe is one, but he’s actually needed now to take out those crazy tanks and solid as rock healers.

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Gimliv, thanks. I was referring to a shed load of numbers that sort of implied what went with my opinion. I think none of us are immune to just accepting what we like to be true. Anyway, i agree with what you are saying and what others have also already mentioned. However, this power creep doesn’t bother me that much, although it does affect me too. Let me describe it like this: if you live somewhere where it’s raining all the time, you get used to the rain. I know, this does not really work, but i think you get what i mean. Again, thanks for working this out and posting it. I really do appreciate it (and your very polite response).

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So back to the topic, unless we ever get to see a spreadsheet or shed load of numbers that says otherwise, it seems the creep pace has changed after all.
For the worse!
Here is another one:
[Look closer at the Pace]
Spreadsheet included …though it’s about 6 months out of date.

Maybe we can move on?

I wouldn’t even call this a mid level alliance. The only thing more casual than that are dead alliances filled with inactive players.
So if we discount that, then such alliances are at the bottom of the competitive barrel, and well below where creeps are problematic.

For everyone else…
If you intend to improve, then you will dislike leaving war flags on the battlefield, and eventually provide consequences for it.
Then… you will improve!
if you can recruit
Which will begin increasing your exposure. Maybe even one day seek to organize your team’s “wall”.

And eventually …there might come a time where you re-read the OP with a bit of heartfelt understanding after watching friends and colleagues spin their wheels and stop progressing. And likely even, experience it firsthand!

But before then, we haven’t heard the last about what an amazing time the casual players are having.
And that’s good!
Because they have a very valuable lesson if you can cut through the irony of how much they don’t care, but care enough to say so.

And it is also contained in this thread’s title! And is genuinely, imo… the best way to enjoy the game, and avoid …spinning out.

Pompitous, don’t really say where you’re getting it, but then i haven’t been in such an alliance for more than 9 months at the very beginning.

And no, noone’s gone back to spreadsheet other than in an anecdotal context.