I am not a fan of the way SG /Zynga keep releasing OP heroes then nerfing… I am very outspoken about my dislike for their business model.
But this has been going on for a long time now, bringing out OP hero, people spend thousands trying to get it in the summon portal , then it gets nerfed, then people complain say they want their money back , rinse and repeat.
If you reward a dog a biscuit every time it bites you then you are conditioning this response, don’t blame the dog next time it bites you… it simply wants another biscuit…!!
Again I’m seeing complaints from people saying they spent thousands trying to get a certain hero like Ferdinand or Aramis.
SG/ Zynga have this business model because you keep spending thousands on OP heroes. You are funding/creating the problem that leads to your later complaint.
Then I see , no spend!.. ye whatever, when SG brings out the next gen hero again people will spend thousands trying to get it… because the simple fact is, if you havent learned by now then you never will , and you have proven repeatedly you want to get an advantage at whatever cost.
Sorry if this offends, but it’s the fact that big spenders need to accept… know that when you spend thousands trying to get a OP hero it will get nerfed… you either stop funding this business model or you stop complaining.
I have said it in other threads, I will repeat it there. The fact that there is also individual responsibility from the players, it does not mean that the company does not have any responsibility in this.
There is the saying “with power comes responsibility”. They have the power over the game, they are also responsible on how the game unfolds.
I realise that in some countries like US customer protection may be a joke, but in others it is a serious issue. The company that has the game takes advantage that it provides the services in an online environment, because if it would provide “real life” products and services, it would not be able to go away with it.
Moreover, it has demonstrated that it has predatory business practices and takes advantage of people’s weaknesses and mental issues.
All these can be valid at the same time. SG developed an attractive and enjoyable game. This game was pushed further (with good and bad) for profit.
Through their actions, the players affect directly only themselves. Through its actions Zynga affects directly all the players.
Players’ individual responsibility does not eliminate that of the company. And the responsibility of the players is limited to themselves individually. The company’s responsibility refers to all players.
Nah, this is something completely different than their usual tactics and people are allowed to react however they want. Most people i have spoken to about this are upset about them buffing the stats of the new heros and nerfing old heros in some cases 3+ yr old heros. Some heros that are geting nerfed have 0 effect on the game so why are they targeting them?? Most of the problematic heros are getting a slight slap on the wrist if anything at all, heck some are getting stats bumped higher.
It’s been a long time since I gave them a biscuit. But I know what you mean. However, I think if they don’t make enough money with the game anymore, they won’t support it anymore. Then it will die.
I just pulled a few days ago in the portal that had Anne guardian gazelle costume guardian hippop ect then a few days latter they said were nerffing Anne Guardian gazelle. I would have pulled differently if all the heros that are getting a change were different. I pull to make synergy. Now nerffing Anne kuhfu Jove is easy You make Anne percent Attack go from 550 to 450 . But if you take the heal away from Guardian gazelle and from its costume the synergy is gone . Just like if you take elemental down from Freeda king Arthur guardian falkon guardian panther. You just ruined the hero . Now take a look at guardian gazelle and look at the costume. Why even put out a costume? Oh to trick me into spending then bait and switch hrs layter and say were nerffing. So yes ill still be good at the game with 70 heros but they no longer syerngize like they use too. Belive it or not i made a strategic pulling over 3.8 years . I didnt just randomly pull . If you look at beta right now they have a hero called Willow . Now if we need to nerf over 200 heros why waist time making Willow ? Why are the portals open untell this mess is fixed ,
There are certain things about this game and certain moves they have made that I don’t like but I’m still playing it, and so are most people. In real life, you may hate certain things about your country but never want to give up your citizenship. We all know everything comes down to the bottom line and money talks.
Let’s just assume that some players on here are right about the fact that they speak for the majority; even then the only way for you to exert your influence over E&P is controlling the cash flows and total spending of all individuals combined, which requires to be centralized and monitored by some sort of an association. That’s just such a mountain to climb, let alone those who are called whales should be too busy in real life to embark on a well- organized demonstration.
There were major revolutions in human history that were quite time-consuming but eventually completely “changed the game”; I just don’t know if it will work the same digitally. And of course, as mentioned earlier, I even don’t know if it has been spoken for the majority.
At this time, I maintain my neutrality as I always do because I’m pretty busy.
Nah. This is the effect of who you vote for to represent you. You vote in people who care very little or not at all about consumer protections, the result is corporations out to make as much money as they possibly can. If you want this to change, then many things in people’s every day lives will have to change.
Not saying you’re wrong with the points you e made, however, a chunk of the blame falls on the player base. Does SG/Zynga/T2 twist players’ arms and forces them to spend? The answer is no.
Everyone knows the main objective of a corporation is to make money…the more and faster the better. But if you keep giving them thousands of “insert currency here” years after they’ve started…well…you’re at least partially to blame.
Did they ever nerf 28 of your heros at the same time ? Did they not just have Anne and costume guardian gazelle in a portal then after the portal went way say ok were nerfing them ? Are they still teleasing new heros when they shpuld be balancing the ones they have ? Willow hero is in beta right now
The question is how big is the chunk. Because the way you say it here sounds like the chunk of player’s responsibility is equal to that of the company when the power is definitely not the same.
Force no. Manipulate, yes.
And the main question that you left out is: “Is the producer responsible for developing and delivering a good product?”. I would say yes and this is what the discussions around here are all about.
this is such a complex and multi-layered topic. I’m gonna start by saying I appreciate the - so far - respectful and thoughtful original post and responses, and I really hope it stays that way.
now (some of) my thoughts:
One answer I’m interested in is: why would people spend thousands of dollars on this game? what drives them to spend thousands to chase a certain hero?
a lot of anger is because people spend thousands to chase X hero, only to have the hero nerfed/balanced later. so does it somehow become OK if players spend thousands to chase X hero, if they are guaranteed that hero will not be nerfed? and what constitutes a good product? a guarantee that hero will not be nerfed? what about the issue of power creep, then?
Sg/Zynga of course should provide a good product. but then, if the product becomes bad, why can’t players simply stop spending? take their business elsewhere? play the game for free?
I don’t have any conclusions yet, just some questions (it is late Sunday night and I am tired lol). I do appreciate this thread and the various responses, for giving me something to think about
No. A good product means that they develop heroes (and events) that improve the players experience with the game. That the new things are tested thoroughly, so they don’t buff-buff-nerf it several months/ a year later, despite the fact that they receive overwhelming feedback from the testing phase about the issues. And then they just nerf the hero to make people chase a newer, more OP version.
And yes, a good product is also about knowing what you buy. Otherwise is cynical, unethical marketing, a scam.
The power creep is normal. People expect it, the question is how steep it is. And that can be seen in the way it evolved over the years.
Players can do all these. But there is such a phenomenon that Zynga knows very well about it, called “sunken costs” when people continue to accept an (increasingly bad) situation because they already spent a lot of resources (money and time) in something and they don’t want to feel that those resources were wasted.
you raise great points re the steepness of power creep, and I will add - the sheer number of heroes released, which is rapidly accelerating
and I guess, if the product is good, spending would certainly be more justified than if the product were bad (let’s leave the degree/amount of spending out of it for now, as that is a whole different discussion / value judgment re “how much is reasonable to spend on a mobile game”, and of course the answer to that differs per person… )
I think it’s difficult to quantify this. 20%? 30%? Still a decent chunk IMO. I think we also have to look at how much an individual person spends. Someone that spends $200/month isn’t nearly as responsible as someone that spends $2000 or more per month.
I spend $50/month. Actually less now since I’ve grown annoyed with certain aspects but still some since I still do find the game entertaining. I am of belief that if you’re enjoying something, you should support it. But not to the tune of thousands/month. So I carry a bit of blame as well, but not anywhere near someone that spends hundreds or thousands.
The same way a car dealer will try to sell you a more expensive vehicle. - “Oh you definitely need these massage seats! You can’t live without this 25 inch touch screen! These fancy looking daylight running lights will make you turn heads on the road!” Or any other item/service you’re getting. This isn’t exclusive only to SG. Hell, a pest control service tried to sell me a service for bugs that weren’t even present in the area I live in and they tried for half an hour after being told no several times.
I absolutely agree that there is manipulation involved. But if anyone wants things to change, there are more than a couple of ways to do it. Stop spending (money talks), petition your local representatives you’ve voted for to bring more attention to these issues, or uninstall are just a few.
We’re all here because we enjoy the product and think it’s good one way or another. But that’s also very subjective. I think the product is good. Could it be better? Yea. Much like I think many other things in life could be better. Starting with the society we live in.
)
