Sorcerer Delay Talent appears broken on Thoth-Amun, possibly in connection with Minion: effect disappears prematurely, or possibly fails to last at all

As you can see at 1:08 of video, Delay talent is triggered by Toth-Amun minion. But next time minion hits it’s vanished.

According to the description the skill should work for 2 turns starting next turn from activation.

Maybe it is the minion, who somehows clears the skill prematurely, or it is just bugged, but this skill also appears extremely rarely, absolutely not 3%:
I tried to trigger this skill by tiles - and there was no success by more then 20 battles. And it’s first time skill activates by minion despite almost every attempt I summon 2-3 minions letting them finish opponents by 20+ hits.

@Kerridoc Can you please take a look at this?

It’s a nice video confirmation of a Thoth-Amun Minion proc’ing Sorcerer’s Delay, but it does appear almost like it’s maybe counting the second Minion hit as a turn, and ending the Delay after only one tile move.

Am I seeing this right?

Yes, looks like it.
And now I’m collecting more videos, still 1 proc of this skill. Maybe it’s finishes even before starting without any visualisation if there more minions.

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That seems like a plausible explanation for why you’re not seeing it proc basically ever — if it happens to be when there are multiple Minions and it’s ending extremely prematurely.

Thanks for posting the video, and continuing to gather more. I think it’ll be a big help in figuring out what’s going on, and ultimately reporting this to SG.

I have already recorded for half an hour of gameplay with Thoth, and there is not a single proc of talent with or without minions. I’ll post it in 7-8 hours when be back home (and film more).

What I could say is that defending Sabina with 1lvl talent uses this skill normally (2 times for 1 battle for me last time).

I need to do more analysis. But on my other account:

Rigard + Graymane versus 1.7-4 Bosses is only applying a 1 turn Delay to Bosses.

Thoth-Amon + 2 minions + Graymane versus 1.7-4 Bosses is attacking with both minions ( Thoth-Amon is not a Sorcerer), then Graymane’s Delay is procced for 1 turn duration.

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If your Thoth-Amon is not a Sorcerer, then his minions could not take part in calculations. Still 1 turn bug there. And it is 2-turn duration if defence hero (Sabina atleast) activate the skill.

But how often your Graymane procs the skill? My Thoth do it almost never.

So far every time I fight the Bosses. But with RNG that can not last.

All Thoth’s are Sorcerers, and the video clearly shows the skill proc’ing on a minion hit, then disappering after one turn. It appeared to disappear immediately after the minion struck again; I wonder if this is the source of the bug.

@Sara, can you please have your team look at this?

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@Kerridoc So we’re seeing the same thing then.

I wanted the second confirmation before asking for staff to look at it.

Thanks!

Thank you for the report, we’ll investigate this here!

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We have reviewed this here and according to the video, there is most likely not a bug here.

Minions don’t trigger Class Talent, a minion attack is not considered damage dealt by the hero that triggers the talent. Also, the effect is applied at the end of players turn but the duration is the enemy’s turns as the effect is on the enemy.

I hope this helps to clarify!

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@Kerridoc It looks like our understanding of this was completely wrong to begin with.


Also, excuse me while I go cry in a corner that my Sorcerer Thoth-Amun as tank won’t have extra chances to proc Delay. :cry:

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It’s explains that 1 turn, thank you.

English is not my native and i’m don’t clearly understand the essence maybe. But what then triggered the effect? How is it working?

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There is a bug here—the only question is what is wrong. Thoth definitely proc’ed Delay and no purple tile fell—it was triggered by his minion. That is consistent with the fact that his minions also hit Strong against holy heroes. But then the effect only lasted one turn. It seems to me that either:

  1. Delay should not have proc’d or
  2. Once proc’d it should have lasted one more turn than it did.
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Uploading 40min video on 3x speed now. There is second proc occured, but there was some stones before minions turn, so it will be useless that way maybe.

Still there is a question about frequency. It is really rare event. Much more rare than 4% rogue skill that can proc only on damage dealing special. Which initially led me to do some videos…

The video:


Second proc after 11:50
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On 4:22 of this almost 13min video I am manually counted ~100 purple stones hitted (but not finished) the enemy. I’m not counting minions, which do hundreds of hits additionally (and 1 time they proc the skill altogether).

Seems like there is ~300 hits by stones in this video, and only 2 procs of sorc talent. One not by stones, but by minions (1000 hits? Don’t count).

On 11:50 there is the second proc done by minions or by stones - we don’t know.

What is the real chance of this ability to succeed? It is the main question.

I know, that RNG is BAAD guy in this game. But it is 3% chance. Not 1,3% like hotm (still, there would be more hotms on 300+1000(?) summons than just 2). And still it is almost never working. And given Petri’s statement about the minions don’t proc the skill - you can change the chance to “never” in talent description boldly after fix.

Using the occasion - there is some nice topic about 2 HOTM’s comparison. And Thoth’s skill don’t even working while Drake’s saves from GM pretty often.

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I have reviewed all my videos.

It is that stupid Null Boss turn display/ GUI problem - again - that keeps popping up with talents like Revive.

Notes

@Petri, could the programmers put in a delay if a boss has a null turn? That would help identify if this is a bug, or GUI problem. (Linky, Linky)

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At 3%, 300 tiles and 2 procs is about a 0.5% chance of happening. It will happen about once every 200 or so times you shoot 300 tiles.

The expected number of procs in 300 tiles is quite low at 3%: 9 procs

1 proc: 0.1% (1 in 1000)
2 procs: 0.5% (1 in 200)
3 procs: 1.4% (1 in 70)
4 procs: 3.3% (1 in 30)
5 procs: 6.0% (1 in 17)
6 procs: 9.1% (1 in 11)
7 procs: 11.8% (1 in 8)
8 procs: 13.3% (2 in 15)
9 procs: 13.3% (2 in 15)

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Well, is there any need in more videos about that skill is broken? I could make some.

Anyway, this hero skeleton talent proc is considered a bug. It’s bad, feeling cheated, wanna my tabards back, cause this hero is kinda nothing on every view. And nobody wanna change anything about that. Just nerf more, altogether with broken skill.

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