[Solved - V33 Update] Reflect buffs can only be bypassed by Ranger Talent, Ninja troops, etc. IF there's another defensive buff casted on top of it

Happy to see you went this way with it, others may not agree but that’s pretty standard in this game nowadays.

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Why are you nerfing heroes like ursena and mitsuko? That is a way to boost even more already powerful heroes as finley and cobalt.

I think you should let reflect as a non bypass buff and fix the error that exists now.

Pd: Its the second indirect nerf mitsuko got this year. Its not fair.

Lets vote, lets make our voices loud. Say no to another Mitsuko nerf

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Reminder that official forum language is english

Сначала вы создаёте хорошого героя а потом из него делаете Просто мусор,ослабив Его,так отражение против стихии льда Мицуки это единственное что делает карту хорошей.
Вы не захотели искать компромисс а просто взяли и убили карту легко и просто,Так давайте уже и другие карты меняйте урсене убирите…
Или ещё какую не будь карту и все ради чего ради Ниндзя вам не кажется что они на много превосходит другие карты и рушат баланс Просто???
Кобаль бьёт под рыцарем 8,5 к урона когда суммарная здоровья Обороны 7,5 ±100-150 хп.теперь вопрос зачем мне делать призив Атлантиды , Вальхаллы или другие события?
Когда есть ниндзя которые в несколько раз лучше всех других героев


First, you create a good hero, and then you make Just garbage out of him, weakening Him, so the reflection against the elements of Mitsuki’s ice is the only thing that makes the card good.
You didn’t want to look for a compromise, but simply took and killed the card easily and simply, So let’s change other cards, change ursene, remove …
Or even what kind of card and all for the sake of the Ninja you don’t think that they are much superior to other cards and destroy the balance Just ???
Kobal hits under the knight 8.5 to damage when the total health of Defense is 7.5 ± 100-150 hp. Now the question is why should I do summoning Atlantis, Valhalla or other events?
When there are ninjas who are several times better than all other heroes

Great idea…

So Cobalt has no counter anymore und Finley will be buffed too. Good moment after the next nerf of vela to present a new blue hero with OP stats.

Sorry but after the Tellu und Vela nerf i can’t understand why you release another hero with OP stats like this.

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To me it makes sense, it’s only bypassable to the ranger talent, so if that talent doesn’t activate then that ice hero will still die. A defensive buff is a defensive buff, they can’t be selective with which buffs that includes. At least that’s how I see it.

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They don’t need to be buffed. Nothing changes except that if their talent activates on Mits when they fire, it will bypass all defensive buffs present on that hero, including reflect.

The good thing is, Finley’s talent may activate on one of the heroes he hits, but because he hits multiple heroes when buffs are active it doesn’t mean he will bypass everyone, it’s why sometimes when when he does damage a hero or two he still dies.

That’s not nerfing Mitsuko, that’s just making the talent make sense across the board no?

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If Mitsuko doesnt have an overlapped defensive buff right now can turn the damage back. After the fix she would work as now when she has overlapped defensive buffs. So, knowing that @KiraSG considered reflecting as a non defensive buff and it should work differently, yep, is an inderect nerf. We can live with it? Sure. But its not nice.

And its relevant for Ursena too. After the fix yellows with the ninja troops will be able to bypass her.

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The one thing doesn’t eliminate the other thing, no?

While I agree it is probably now working as most would interpret the Ranger talent when first reading its description, it is still a nerf to Mitsuko’s effectiveness imo. If they would have “fixed” this bug a few days after Ranger talents or Finley was first introduced (not sure which one came last), it would have been a simple bug fix for me. But it’s probably working this way for over a year now. While it is still considered a bug fix, it (to me) is also a nerf (= making something less powerful) to the Mitsuko that we were used to. :slight_smile:

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Mitsuko was viewed as a counter to Finley, because she reflected him MOST of the time. We even have a dev state that this was intended.

They’re reversing that statement now, and so Mitsuko will only reflect some of the time (or never against a fully charged Cobalt).

So, yes, that’s a nerf. And it’s not like Finley is super rare in upper diamond either. I see him about half the time in raids above 2700 cups.

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It’s probably something other than what Guvnor explained.

Namely, Cobalt is a wizard, and can proc 15% additional damage per buff on the target. Since your heroes have about 7 buffs, he will do more than double damage to whatever hero it procs on, which looks like what happened.

No sigma variation would account for more than DOUBLE the difference, else I’d be oneshotting fools every so often with my snipers.

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Honestly I had never noticed that Finley would never pierce Mits unless there were other defensive buffs present, not until this topic anyways. I usually use Mitsuko with Wilbur when fighting Telluria tanks, and both being the same speed I usually had other defensive buffs up.

At least for me, I don’t think Mitsuko’s effectiveness against Finley changes here much. I know that technically it does because there’s a chance to pierce now always, but me having assumed that was always the case I still accepted said chance and brought her anyways.

With Wilbur active I usually saw 1 pierce and 4 reflects, that usually meant he was dead by suicide too even if he did get a hit in.

For me it’s not so much Finley, but the blue Ninja Troop that gets stronger (indirectly) from this change. Ditto the yellow troop.

And for me that’s mostly for defense, because I would never take 15% chance to bypass reflect buffs on offense… that’s just waaaaay too risky of a chance to bank on bypassing when the odds are mostly suggesting you’ll suicide your hero on those reflect barriers.

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Ninja troops but also there are a lot of blue rangers, Athena Finley alasie and the 4 and 5* blue ninjas.
I’m with you when rangers are not a problem… But in my case I usually take an off color healer that wouldn’t get gm spirit link so he would never be pierced…
Looking at how AI is doing against me letely I bet my healer will be bypassed more times than any other hero…
5*Yellow ranger is only neith (she got her buff? Against ursena…)

By the way when will this change take effect? Because for tomorrow wars would be fine to know if I should pair mits with gm or other “defense” buffer or not…

Just for safety I won’t… But would be nice to know when will it take place…

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Finley has always been able to pierce the buff when the talent is active in my gameplay experience, same as Alasie. There were even times that she died from the one shot being reflected, but her
-mana Gen still pierced the nearby. So I actually always saw the talent being able to pierce The reflect buff at times. That’s why I don’t see it as anything different.

I get what you’re saying if in your experience is different though.

I agree, I always knew that he could and just might pierce her reflect, but I always banked on that percentage not being 100 and Being confident that he wouldn’t be able to pierce all 5 heroes, which my banking has always been correct, he may pierce 1 or 2, but he always ends up dying anyway LOL :rofl:

Lol I guess? She’s not very common on defenses in my experience. I’ve seen a few top teams that have her as flank, but those teams are few and far in between.

I won’t count offense. As a Neith owner, I won’t ever consider using Neith against Ursena while her reflect buff is active, even with this knowledge. Even if she pierces two enemies (being generous here), she’s likely going to end up near death and crippled from the damage taken from the other 3.

Bai Yeong is also a yellow ranger. And Chao.

But clearly the biggest threat is costume Bane.

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What is the tl;dr here. A bug fix is coming to ensure there is always a chance to bypass vs reflect buff and so Cobalt will always bypass on 3rd charge (which is clearly not the case currently)? Yeah that’s fine I guess. Another balancing method might be to allow dispels of the colour in question to remove the reflect.

We identified as part of this thread that it’s actually a bug that occurs when heroes have another defensive buff cast before Mitsuko’s reflect, such as GM elemental link.
Instead of fixing the bug, they chose to make it the normal behavior and have the bypass work even if there is no other defensive buff

It should work regardless of there being another defensive buff right? I guess I’m confused because When I think of bypassing defensive buffs, I don’t see it as situational. If the hero talent is active it should bypass all defensive buffs, including elemental reflect. Reflect is a defensive buff and absent of the talent a blue hero would be reflected, so piercing would be just the opposite. @Max_paris

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