Simple solution to make the trophy-tanking less frustrating to others

I dont think its an exploit at all.
You drop cups because you dont enjoy raiding, but still want to fill the daily raid chests.

Insisting on people gaining/keeping their cups is only going to give you (and other big spenders with tricked out teams) easier targets to pick on.

You keep fighting those players that want to compete cup-wise and leave those who dont alone.

Stop trying to pass on your views of percieved “exploits” as truths.

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This doesn’t concern me. No one has a higher power team than me so they can’t do this to me.

What I am saying is, that this is wrong against those players on lower ranks that want to be competitive. Is it right that some people mess up with that by dropping their rank so they can attack targets they couldn’t otherwise? So the victims of this lose more cups and resources than they deserve. While some higher power players gain easy kills and resources on their expense.

There is a limit who you can attack, need to be ± 280 cups of yours. This is to give equal level enemies. Also the cup gain depends on cup difference, so difficult fights reward more and easy less. This cup dumping is an exploit to get around this limit.

You are not supposed to win every fight and you are not supposed to fill the heroes wanted chest in 8 attacks. It is the same difficulty for everyone. but guess there is always people who think they deserve an easier path than others…

This is full on righteous bull**** on your part @Arien.

1: People who drop cups give away more cups than they gain. Hence the dropping of said cups.

2: If it doesnt concern you, stop trying to change things and hide behind “the little guy”-excuse.

3: Try being humble once in a while. Leave the “…” , superiority complex and snide remarks at the door.

People dump cups because:

  1. Raiding isn’t fun
  2. They still want to fill their Raid chest

Yes, it’s true that lvl’d teams who drop to much lower levels are facing lower teams, which may demoralize those lower teams. I get that. But the system as it stands doesn’t answer 1 and 2. :confused:

How about something that works for everyone? Is that possible?

P.S. I’ve dropped cups once, so I’m not arguing for “my side” here…

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  1. Yes but the receivers of those cups are different persons than the ones who lose them.

2 & 3. I’m talking about game balance and the system. Why are you making this personal? I really don’t have any personal losses or gains in this behavior. But when this is obviously an increasing behavior I don’t think it is good for the game. Why can’t I take interest in making this game better even if the flaws don’t concern me personally.

Well if you don’t think raiding is fun, then how is cup dumping going to solve it? Do people really want a raid system where skill or power doesn’t matter. You would win every attack?

Personally I think raiding is really fun. Trying to win as many attacks and find a defensive team that wins as much as possible.

Almost all games that has PVP uses some system to prevent better players from bullying lower ones. To pair equally powered players against each other, to keep the fights challenging and fair for everyone.

This game has such system too, but people are getting around it. I’m saying it is wrong. Of course everyone has their right to opinion. But is it that bad that the rewards require some effort to achieve?

Someone mentioned separate rewards for being at X cups. I guess that could solve all this. Instead of a chest for defeating X enemies you get to open the raid chest and get loot tier depending on your cups amount.

There, effort pays off, there’s no need to grind X people and get mad about failing to do it in 8 hits and the incentive to drop cups is completely gone for good.

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1: Those losing cups to “cup droppers” can always revenge and gain those cups back when the revenge is favorable, since almost all run little to no defense.

2: I’m made it personal because you responded in a condescensing way. And that behaviour annoys the hell out of me.

3: Your oppinion of what is considered a game flaw and your perception about how the game should be played is your oppinion. Not shared by everybody.

4: Cup dropping solves the raiding issue by allowing a player to spend minimal time raiding while still not missing out on chests. Leaving the player with more time to enjoy other aspects of the game. It still requires the time put in as effort.

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For me it works just fine.
Wanna have a lot of trophies? Keep your best team on defence and learn how to do well on attacks.
Wanna fill heroes chest easily? Keep your worst team on defence and revenge all the things.
The game gives already plenty of chance to win even against people stronger then you.

Gonna say something very rude, but true.
Who complaints about raids simply is a bad player.

Sorry, Fledoble, but I can’t agree with you here.

  1. If a weak player got rekt by the cup-dropper, the cup-dropper is already equipped with his strong team therefore the only option is to get rekt twice.

  2. It is not their opinion, it’s a logical conclusion based on how game design works. Little Giant did not create the raid system/raid chests for this sort of gameplay. Whether you like cup dropping or not, it’s NOT intended to work this way. Game mechanics can often be abused, that does not make the abuse tricks objectively fine.

For instance in a game ANNO you could basically cheat the system by using something called the Noria Exploit. It made the game extremely easy. Could you do it? Yes. Could you enjoy it? Yes. Was it intended and objectively good design? Absolutely not and were it not a single player game, the developers would rectify it quickly.

  1. All it does is show that the raiding system coupled with the chest reward are a flawed design choice and not enjoyable to the playerbase that feels compelled to abuse a mechanic to grind something out. That is bad design. Good design would make players utilize the feature in a way intended by the developer while enjoying it and feeling adequately rewarded for the effort put in.

Seriously dude, how many people do the low team trick and how many simply put what they have?
5%? 10%? 20%?? (don’t think so)
And even if there are so much people, you have a really good button that can skip that kind of foe.
Or you can revenge people who have a viable team.

You know for what LG has create this kind of system? Lucky you, i did not.
Maybe you are right, maybe not.But there is always a trick on every system/law you build, you can’t pretend that all the people always plays with the rules that you find more suitable.

As other stated, trophies as value for someone and nothing for someone else in the current system.
Why people can’t play the way they want?

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Not enjoying raiding isnt the same thing as complaining about raid balance and mechanics.

Personally I have nothing against the way raiding works, I just dont see any point to it besides filling the raid chest, so for me anything beyond that is just a waste of time. But that its my personal oppinion.

You dont have to agree with me.
But I will say this in reply.

1: All cup droppers I know, run weak teams unless they decide to make a run at the leaderboard. In which case they wouldnt drop cups. This is empirical knowledge, but if you have any other data, feel free to share.

2: Once again, it is your logical conclusion based on your perception of how the game is and should be played. You are not unbiased. And you dont know how the game was intended to be played. No statement about this has ever been made by Small Giants.

Why are you guys so angry? It’s a discussion. And the reason I feel it’s a point to be discussed is that all I see here is:

“Thank goodness trophy tanking is a thing so I can avoid doing the raiding in a way I feel is unfun.”

and not:

“I love trophy tanking, it gives me joy.”

So basically there are people who dislike trophy tanking and those that do it cause it’s a less annoying alternative to a system. Nobody #likes# it for what it is, so to me it’s a flaw in design. It’s a game. Things in a game should be enjoyable and not “less annoying than X”.

That’s all from me on the subject. I’m peacing out of here.

I just hope the developers read these forums and will find a way to make the raiding system fun for those that like raiding and not annoying (and preferably just non obligatory) to those that couldn’t care less for it without punishing lower-power players who feel they’re getting dicked by tankers while trying to play for cups (cause they want to).

And no, I don’t write this cause I’m salty. I haven’t been hit by a tanker ever, I just noticed it and it struck me as something that could be fixed so I wrote about here, because that’s what the forums are for.

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I’m not angry over the discussion. Discussion and debate is good.

I do however get annoyed when people try to tell me how to play/enjoy the game and presume how to know how the game should be played.

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And why not “Thank goodness trophy tanking is a thing so i can avoid doing the raiding in a way THAT IS MORE DIFFICULT” ?

People says that it’s DIFFICULT raiding on the actual system. Not boring or unfunny, DIFFICULT.
Other story is that people is more happy when they win, but hey, we are no kids anymore. Maybe.

It’s a trick, no one deny it.
But you overestimate this.

Just throwing some hand-waving numbers out there:

It takes on the order of 3 months (and some lucky rolls) to be able to field a competitive top 100 team.

It takes on the order of 6 months (and some really lucky rolls) to be able to field a competitive top 10 team.

Most cup droppers (I know of one howling jack*** in game who probably is in it for beating on noobs, and they will never be my friend on or offline) couldn’t care less about wrecking noobs: it’s generally about resources, and frankly the hero chest resource wise isn’t a big thing.

It’s some simple math to see progression speed for me at 2300-2400 vs. 1800-2000: I’ve tried both, and given I’m still in the hero and troop leveling phase of the game, the ham requirements are frankly absurdly intensive… I don’t regularly match the number Arien quoted and I’m a little skeptical of that but perhaps the economics at SH20 are different, but I’ve cleared 1m / day on many occasions and I don’t have to look further than my own troop and hero leveling to know I’m dwarfing many others even in top alliances in terms of progression and these are also people who have spent non-trivially more money than I have.

End of the day, for me it’s about being competitive longer term and to reach that point as quickly as possible… trying to maximize cups at every point in time simply isn’t the way to accomplish that. There will be a time and a place for it even for me, and I suspect some of my alliance leadership will be happier when I do, but until ham becomes irrelevant I will hang out around the allowable floor rather than trying to play in the strata where my income will drop substantially.

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I have never been lacking for food or iron in this game. I dont understand what everyone is spending their ham on. I reroll raids just to spend ham or to find those with under 1k resources ao i can maximize filling food/iron from farms and mines for missions

If you never starve for meat, then you’re doing it wrong.

Level up heroes? Meat.
Level up troops? Meat.
Create many items? Meat.
Ascend and feed 5* heroes? Flood of meat !

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I level every hero i get including 3s and have over 170 days of heros in queue. Wish i had any more 5s to pmay with, waiting on a mystic ring for final ascension for my only.
I dont craft a ton as i dont use many items as im towards the top of titan scores w/o using. Although i suppose i could try for A+ every time

Heh - was sort of tongue in cheek… (but I will be honest that it increased my game enjoyment. I think the raid mechanic sucks that much.)

I think the mistake by the designers here is to mix the PvP system with in-game resources (or chance thereof). Compounded by the fact that turning over wanted missions more quickly raises your average rate of getting rare wanted missions over time - and those return real value. This will naturally lead to people taking the most efficient way of gaining those resources… which is to drop cups.

Sure, I can do ‘the honourable thing’ and gut out extremely frustrating raids at my ‘natural’ level, winning only 1 in every 4 or so until I’ve naturally lost enough cups through attrition to then win a couple more and get back where I started. But really I find that absolutely no fun. Why do I play the game? To have fun… I don’t subscribe to the ‘masochism as a reason to play’ mindset. So I increase my rate of filling hero wanted quests in a way that is all too easy for the devs to ‘fix’ if they really thought it was a problem. I (suspect) they don’t see it as much of a problem.

If ‘everyone’ did it, then it would just move the whole frustrating mess down to a naturally lower level of cups… what’s the problem? Those who want to take raids seriously will quickly climb above the maelstrom of cup droppers and they are then free to whack their heads against the brick walls that represent the higher level players to their hearts’ content… no doubt satisfying their masochistic streaks in the process. (The real top players will never be affected by it).

If they decouple the wanted mission from the PVP system, then people will have no motivation to exploit the PvP system. (And with the Raid mechanic as it currently is, if they did that then I wouldn’t bother playing PvP at all).

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