Should the Mana speed of some older heroes be increased?

Absolutely. Some heroes have such poor man’s speeds for what they can do, I’m surprised that they still have yet to be touched.

Khagan
G. Owl
Boss Wolf
Red Hood
Grimble
Vivica

Etc.

The costume of the S1 heroes makes them faster and look at Bertila, she is also slow!

You think Grimble’s skill is not a match for his speed? What is your reasoning for this?

You will find a decent number of Isarnia’s (both costume and original) flanking in defence, but at lower to mid diamond. Frigg floats to the top of diamond.

Why?
a) Frigg is a better defense hero than Isarnia - fast speed, more survivable
b) Often those who have Frigg are the heavier spenders who have other good heroes, so they will naturally be placing higher in raid cups

Overall I don’t think there is denying that Frigg is a better hero. But as I said she is not a better hero in all game modes, and I think the difference in the heroes (referring here to the costume, which was the original topic) are reasonable given S3 heroes should be the cream of the crop.

Not one person has said that. I personally said there are game modes where Isarnia is more useful than Frigg - namely titans, rush tournies, and in some cases PVE. And by the way the original reference was to costume Isarnia, not original Isarnia.

Overall Frigg is a better hero. I am not really seeing how this is unhealthy for the game? Do you want all heroes to be at the exact same level of usefullness? That is not even possible as certain aspects of heroes are very subjective and dependent on playstyles, rosters, etc.

You start off by disagreeing with the assertion that Frigg and Isarnia are grossly unequal and state that the two are “not as far apart as you think.” Then you go on to compare the two:

And as you seem to lay it out, by my measure, that’s roughly two categories to two categories, with one, according to you, being a wash. All of which sure makes it seem like you think they’re awful close in usefulness.

However, your analysis is grossly misleading. You admit that Frigg is better in raids. Then you pretend as if they’re equally useful on map, quest, and event stages—they are not. The only PVE stages you’d take Isarnia over Frigg are in the Riddles of Wonderland (where green damage is reflected). Just about everywhere else where there is a balance of colored tiles, you’d be smarter to take Frigg. You rank Isarnia better against titans than Frigg, but this isn’t true either. Isarnia is better against red titans, but Frigg is better against blues. (You wouldn’t want to take either against any other colored titan.) So titans is actually a wash. Lastly, you list “rush wars and tournaments” and “regular wars and tournaments,” suggesting at least graphically that they’re both of equal weight. They’re not. Rush tournaments are 1/3 of the overall tournaments. So Isarnia will be useful there 1/3 of the time as compared to Frigg. Rush wars are 1/6 of the overall wars. In attack boosted, field aid, arrow attack, equalizer, and horde wars, Frigg is indisputably better than Isarnia.

Their value in raids, wars, tournaments, and map stages all grossly tilt in Frigg’s favor. The only place they’re roughly equal is against titans. (Though even against titans, Frigg is particularly unique, being the only defense-down green hero, whereas there are other blues who can approach Isarnia’s usefulness, albeit not as well.)

Now all of this is not to say that I think they should be equal, or equally useful—I’d just like to see a bit more equity. It’d be nice if heroes felt useful at least somewhere meaningful in the game.

The game’s power creep has skewed the game’s balance, and these newer heroes and features are making parts of the game feel obsolete, as the OP rightly pointed out.

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For the amount of damage he does combined with his stats, it isn’t proportionate. If his stats were adjusted to less tanky, then I could see him at average, but the way it stands now, I cannot justify him there. He’s also a cleric when he should have been a barbarian, but that’s neither here nor there.

The amount of damage he does? Ok let’s have a look at this - maxed but not emblemed.
0 minions (you would never trigger him at 0 minions): 200 damage * 5
5 tel minions = 125(ish) + 200 = 325 damage * 4 (doesn’t auto kill tel minions)
10 tel minions (2 deep) = 250 + 200 = 450 * 8 (doesn’t auto kill tel minions)
5 bera/freya minions = 280 + 200 = 480 * 5
10 bera/freya minions = 560 + 200 = 760 * 5
15 bera/freya minions = 840 + 200 = 1040 * 5

I think war minions are similar to Tel minions?
I wont’t go into all scenarios this is just a few common and edge scenarios. Basically the damage output where you have 5+ minions starts at around a Frigg hit and ends up at > sniper level.

But that is not even the main part of his special - for 10 minions he will fully recharge the mana of your fast heroes. In a stack with slow heroes he will make them functionally fast (9 tiles) as long as you have him at 9 tiles which results in great synergy (e.g. Quintus at average finishing your opponents off). These days I have him running as an off-color recharger which works as a great insurance policy, or as part of a rainbow team.

His tankiness is amazing and just what it needs to be. He is essentially a support hero who happens to have the potential for massive damage output, and he needs to survive.

Why would you want him to be a barbarian? Barbarians imo are the least useful class. As a cleric he has some chance of withstanding mana impediments (e.g. from Tel) which helps him to be able to recharge the whole team.

This is a prime example of how he can be an absolute game changer

I guess. I just think his special is too circumstantial for his mana speed/stats. Was Telluria prevalent, yes, but not so much anymore. Bera/freya are everywhere, true, but Grimble doesn’t have the advantage against them because he’s slower and they are all the same color. Grimble is also shortchanged against Krampus and whenever BK is present. He often times misses against Inari/c.kadilen unless he waits out their special (which could spell death). Overall, he’s just too slow. If Kadilen can be fast, so can he.

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If he was faster than them then he could definitely sit on his special… but that is a bit of a waste for him. It is actually a great thing that both Freya and Bera are fast. My favourite tactic against them is to dump tiles into them until there are 2 levels of minions, and then I charge him. That is much eaiser to do with fast heroes. By the time that much dumping happens it is pretty likely that he will be charged (this is based on 10 tiles, but now I have him on 9 tiles it should be even easier).

Yes they are the same color, but with Freya and Bera it often pays to not kill the tank first anyway (that 5% mana cut is annoying and potentially deadly to the extreme). Besides which, killing the tank will take away the goose with the golden eggs! So even if you do a purple stack just keep dumping tiles into the tank, charge everyone up, and progressively kill flanks and wings until you just have the tank left. Alternatively, run him as a ‘1’ in a 4/1 or as part of a rainbow, both of which I do.

I don’t have a great option against Krampus/BK as I don’t have a good dispeller. Against Krampus I would say the only option is to dump tiles until you get a few layers of miions, then wait it out for 3 turns. i do agree that this is dangerous, but the danger is there with many other heroes vs Krampus/BK. What I like to do is bring Zocc along so that even when the special is activated I make sure it cannot be retriggered, which means I can tile dump into the center and charge everyone up to be ready in 2/3 turns without fear of the taunt being ongoing

Inari is almost non-existent. C Kadilen I have trouble with in tank position in general - I think she is really storng. But the same principle applies as for Krampus/BK

He would be absolutely OP as fast

LOL, right on the head. Too many ultra powerful fast and VF heroes are released making average through VS heroes at a serious disadvantage. Same skills at slower speeds? The Isarnia vs Frigg is a great example of this power creep.

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You would have a good argument, if the skills were actually the same

You’re right…Frigg has a BETTER skill at fast mana. More damage.

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His attack stat is so weak it really wouldn’t make him OP at fast

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You are missing everything I am saying.

His base special attack stat will vary somewhere between 200 and 300 per hero depending on emblems. But that is 10% of his skill. The bigger part is the minion killing - which can scale to up to 1000 points of damage per hero - and the mana recovery, which can fill up 4-10 tilles’ worth of mana for everyone on the team. That is a very powerful special, and would be OP at fast

Oh, yeah! Without a mana troop, she’s so damn slow, sometimes I barely get her charged before the match is over…

This is why he doesn’t need any buff

Short answer: yes, they should

Short answer to what?

To OP, don’t know why it replied to you

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