S4 intro - I choose to challenge

Equality and respect aren’t nonsense imho :hugs:


That’s my main issue, SG is importing 19th Century.

I love reading the original Sherlock Holmes for example and understand that it’s of it’s time; I wouldn’t want it edited.

But when the characters are crow-barred into a new setting, their inherent attitudes are at odds with the progressive message that SG was trumpeting just a week ago.

Enjoy the original characters in their original context. In a new context they require rewriting and then why not give artists the chance to make something new?

I’m not going to quit or anything, it’s just food for thought :relaxed:


Exactly Jonah. Obviously it’s not the end of the world but it surely is a missed chance, especially so shortly after the big choose to challenge action.


Yes, that would be normal, in the case of a female ambassador, let’s say… introductions would go as " mrs. “X”, the … ambassador, and her husband. It all depends on the preson you really need to introduce. At an ambassy soire, you won’t start introductions by mrs “x”, math teacher and her husband, the ambassador. It would be stupid.

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They’re not nonsense, long as they’re anchored in reality, but as soon as they fall into this kind of extremes as to why the characters of a video game were introduced in an imaginary sexist manner, they become ridiculous…

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I’m married to a very passionate feminist (marriage was her choice, just before that gets comments) so I’m normally pretty in tune to this sort of thing.

The intro really didn’t trigger anything with me though. If anything it made me deeply suspicious of Elizabeth. Like being introduced to the Scarlett With from Marvel without knowing who she was. “This is Wanda, ordinary women”

Really??? If she’s ordinary then why is she scaring the bejesus out of me :joy: Elizabeth was the same, she just looks like she’s not ordinary in the slightest. Introduced as “my wife” leaves to go “yeah…and what else I wonder??”

But of course I’m a man so my opinion is irrelevant in this. If someone else feels annoyed by it then the rule of perception is as good as truth comes into play.


I disagree.

Certainly it’s ridiculous to blame an individual game for all sexism, but I think there’s genuine harm in long term and widespread negative stereotyping.

I think there’s value in having a mature discussion about it.

My perspective is increasingly coloured by being a dad.

I want my daughters to aspire to be doctors and scientists, not their assistants.

A game cut scene in isolation is just a drop in the ocean, but if the majority of the media they consume portrays women as having position only with reference to a man, it becomes the expectation.

I’m not a radical, I just want everyone to feel encouraged to be their best.

Let’s aspire to be better at encouraging everyone to reach their potential rather than write this off as more reactionary wokeism.


Excellent idea, @amrath !! hopefully we can see more of that later on :slight_smile:

Agnes and Bjorn in S3 were a good example IMO - sister and brother, but equals. neither defined as being “sibling of the other”.


I mean, we already have Santa chucking defense down presents at Athena and Alice while amassing a horde of helper elf minions with Mother North (Mrs. Clause, ostensibly) reviving them with porridge…

The Christmas heroes are probably the most out of place in the game, imo. And no, I did not forget about the bunnies.


Ok, wherever there’s a doctor or a professor, may it be male or female, there will always be an asistent. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with being an asistent. We can’t all be doctors or professors, the world needs asistents as much as doctors. We all want the best for our children, it’s just that life doesn’t much care for what we want…


Absolutely nothing wrong with being an assistant, but if people who look like us are only ever shown as the assistant, then it’s damaging to our aspirations and ambitions.


You’re absolutely right. I think what needs to be added is … If that’s your choice, and you actually have a choice. For too many decades that choice wasn’t given to women. I think this is where the awareness is important.


Yeah, great point - its a relatively small and fairly easy change to make. And it could have a big impact. So why not go ahead and make it? Food for thought indeed.

It’s these types of conversations that open eyes and get us to re-examine our thoughts.


Of all the great comments in this thread, this one really sums it up for me.

I get tired of hearing, “this isn’t the place to consider blank.” Whether it’s sports, video games, whatever. It would be awesome if folks could instead ask themselves why it’s such a big deal to them that someone wants a basic level of respect.

I tend to want people to feel good, valued, heard, seen. So when someone says they don’t, I’m interested more in doing what I can to help them feel those things, because, well, why not?


^—— 20 characters of this!!


If I could give more than one like here, I would

This message, which is expressed in a very balanced way, is exactly what we need to aspire to. And as a father of daughters, I love the way you said it Mr Bard

Yes it is only a game, but it is part of our overall social context, and it would be great if it didn’t reinforce negative stereotypes and outdated social norms. Every change helps


Thank you! :slight_smile: and yes, I think the world would be better if everyone asked themselves -

“OK, this isn’t important for me. But it’s important for someone else. So why not just do it?”

And maybe by doing it, we will understand why it is so important for other people!


I agree. And I hate to say this but please do not bring any virtue-signaling SJW temper into this forum. Thank you.

I’m not familiar with this phrase?

Social Justice Warrior


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