Remove the limit on skips

Ideas & Feature Requests
21

And this is where my previous self would come in and say, “why limit us? I have other games where if I play for X number of hours a day, I’m able to earn as much loot as I want given how much time I’ve invested, why should there be a limit?”

And then that’s when someone else will come in and say, “you’re comparing apples to oranges, E&P is not a console or PC title, in mobile games it’s all about the limits, and the limits are there for a reason, and we’re happy that they exist.”

And then I would say “that sounds dumb”

And then they say “then uninstall if you hate it so much, and go back to playing your stupid console and PC games where you’re only expected to pay $60 one time to access all of the content, we’re perfectly happy dropping hundreds of dollars a month on this game for a chance at getting something”

And then I…

Have nothing left to say. :zipper_mouth_face:

22

This is only tangentially on-topic, but I’ll express myself anyway because it’s somewhat relevant in terms of being able to reset chests over and over.

Limits are good, and it’s not related to whether the game is mobile or PC.

I have been to the other side - a gacha game that has so many ways of filling up energy that it’s essentially infinite, and you can grind events non-stop to get more pulls and more of something akin to ascension mats. There are several reasons why it’s a worse overall experience:

  1. New player experience is absolutely horrid. Since everyone worth their salt grinds hard, content is balanced with a very top-heavy approach, where it is all but expected you to grind for hours daily to be able to see even a quarter of the game’s content. New players can only do what amounts to the first 5 stages of s1 for the first month.

  2. The game is overrun with bots and scripters. Being able to grind 24/7 entices people into finding ways of doing so, and you essentially need to do it to get into the top “alliances” - you’re completely underpowered in top-tier PvP and PvE otherwise.

  3. Burnout. There’s only so many hours you can grind before doing the game’s version of s1 8-7 or challenge event runs starts causing actual nausea, and you eventually just drop the game in several months because you can’t take it any more.

  4. Dilution of power. Given enough time and effort, you can get pretty much anything you want, but then again, everyone already has everything. It’s like top alliances expecting you to have Telly in E&P, but with a roster of 30 specific heroes expected instead - they become so commonplace that they’re no longer special, instead they’re a status quo and a stepping stone into the world of even harder grind.

These might not apply to you specifically, or be applicable to E&P, but there are in fact sound reasons for limiting the grind.

Relevant link (warning: TVTropes can and will suck you in for hours of clicking): https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiPoopSocking

23

I understand what you mean, within the context of the E&Pverse…

But. Counterargument. RE: other types of PC/console MMOs.

I’ve played a few different PC and console MMOs. Mostly B2P (buy to play). A couple of them actually went full F2P a year or two after initial release.

In those games, there was no limit to how much you could farm the same area over and over again for the same stuff.

Of course, yes, there were bots and scripters. Eventually the trading marketplaces were overrun with the so-called rare items, to the point to where you could acquire them for “pennies on the dollar” and everyone had them.

Didn’t completely break the game, though. The devs would come in and make a couple of quick changes during weekly maintenance to “rebalance” things. After that, either the coveted items didn’t drop as often, they weren’t worth as much as before, or they were much harder to obtain. This was a regular thing for those games. Nerfing and buffing of certain hero builds was expected, not reviled as it is here.

In those games, you had players who played 20 hours a day and got all the best loot. As total F2Ps, not counting their initial B2P investment. I had a full time job at the time, so I paid a little bit extra (like $5 a month) for “elite” status. Elite status allowed me to level up faster, allowed me to get to event quest locations faster, really just very minor things. Saved me like 5 minutes for each quest, nothing “game breaking”. But I got accused of being “P2W” in those games. Like “oh sorry guyz, I don’t have the luxury of being able to live in my parents’ basement for free and play 24/7, I can only play a couple hours a day so I paid $5 a month to be able to finish all my quests at a slightly faster rate than the rest of you. Not sure how that is breaking the game for anyone else? It just means that you have to manually run to the quests while I get to fast travel there. In the end, we both still complete the same quests. You have spare time, I have spare money. Not seeing an issue.” Because ultimately at the end of the day, whether you spent money to be able to do stuff faster, or spent extra time grinding, everyone ended up accomplishing the same goals.

I very much liked that. That anyone could accomplish anything in those games if they were dedicated enough, regardless of whether they grinded 20 hours a day for free or spent a little bit for the “fast pass” to skip some of the grindy time. It ultimately ended up working out fair for most players. F2P full time gamers and P2P part time gamers were all on a level playing ground.

In the case of E&P, you cannot get everything from grinding 24/7. You cannot get everything from paying $5 a month. You have to drop both thousands of dollars and thousands of hours into this game if you ever expect to get “everything”.

“Enough time and effort” will absolutely not get you everything you want in this game. Hey, I want a Gravemaker. How much time as a F2P will it take for me to feasibly get a Gravemaker?

“Ohhhh F2P. No, no. That could take decades. You’re going to have to spend some money for that.”

Okay. How much?

“It depends.”

On what?

“On how lucky you are.”

:neutral_face:

Okay, never mind then.

1 Like
24

Yeah, that’s the main difference between an MMORPG and a gacha game.

The point of playing a MMORPG is to have a satisfying gameplay loop, socialise, progress - and see some shiny loot in the process, that helps you do the former three. Since the focus is on gameplay, they have dedicated development teams working on game health to keep things fun.

Here’s where this model begins to crumble in a gacha game:

  • First of all, the loot is the whole point of the game. Face it, you don’t play E&P to kill some yetis or uncover the mystery of Atlantis. You play it to get some pulls and hopefully see a 5* pop up, resulting in an outburst of endorphins.
  • Since the loot is the point, players must be confident that they get to keep the shinies that they got. Hence reluctance about balance patches.
  • The gameplay itself has not been changed significantly since the dawn of time. There’s only so much you can do with a match-3 formula. Thus there is no need for a dedicated dev team for gameplay issues/freshness.
  • Since the dev team is likely small, SGG has no way of dealing with an influx of bots that take over the game.
  • Since the gameplay is always the same sets of 35 tiles, you burn out a lot faster than in an MMO.

So yeah, you are in fact comparing apples and oranges. I could wish they made the next World of Warcraft out of E&P, but it’s not an intention for the gacha model.

It’s like expecting a slot machine in your local casino to let you have a free spin after manually cranking its handle for half an hour. Yeah, sure, but why? You’re hogging the thing from a paying customer while you crank.

25

Fair enough, fair enough.

Apples vs. oranges it is.

I guess all I can say there is, I like E&P overall, but it’s not my preferred game style.

And if they have to limit stuff to keep it balanced, that’s fine.

But then that begs the question… why is everything in this game so expensive? You yourself admit that it’s a very basic game. Resources have to be limited to prevent anyone from getting them right away.

The way it is currently set up though, you can’t get most of the heroes in the game without spending thousands of dollars.

If the game is just to be a fun part time diversion, then it is what it is. Price it as such.

Or am I wrong in thinking that this game is charging players too much? Limiting loot drops too much? Restricting summoning odds too much? Etc.?

Of course that is purely subjective. But to me it looks like E&P is charging top shelf prices for discount store products.

1 Like
26

The game is a glorified slot machine with a friendly façade and gameplay elements.

It is what it is.

This is why they’re not that interested in giving you an opportunity to succeed with time and effort instead of $$$. But there’s also valid reasons from the player perspective as well, as I mentioned two posts ago.

To keep it on-topic, the above discussion is basically reasons why the limits on grinding will likely stay until the twilight days of this game.

I actually played a game like this until the servers went down forever, and they even put a “memorial portal” a week before the game closed, where you still had to pay to get heroes. So perhaps even in its rigor mortis stage, it will stay true to its purpose.

2 Likes
27

La idea es buena, al igual que los cofres de titan, sin temporizador o al menos bajar un poco, y subir la frecuencia con que aparecen los cofres especiales y los titanes raros.

1 Like
28

Even a pebble can cause avalanche. Even 1 hero can ruin the game.

You must think of the whole system when you want to have a change.

Your thread have 0 vote means you don’t even vote for it… :sweat_smile:

2 Likes
29

he estado calculando lo dificil de las ínvocaciones y da ganas de llorar, recordemos que subir un heroe aveces tienes un 20% y un 50% de probabilidades de subir de nivel 8/8 y te cansas de darle comida, imaginense en la loteria de bonificacion y heroes legendarios que a penas llega al menos de 3% entre ambos. Un abuso total, esas invocaciones podrian estar al menos en 7% y 8% cada unas. y aun asi seguiria siendo dificiles de obtener. pongan como ejemplo el campo 20 de entrenamiento que de 10 sale 1 de 5*, 2 de 4* y 7 de 3*.

Tambien las invocaciones de evemto, invocas en un evento ¡¡et voila!! te salen todos los heroes de la temporada I, al menos den mas prioridad a los de evento si es evento.

1 Like
30

That is what I fear. That this game will eventually close the servers after all the time and money we’ve all put into it.

I don’t want that to happen. Which is why I keep suggesting they introduce lower cost options to encourage C2P and even F2P players to keep spending, at least just enough to keep the game going. If that means letting someone pay $5 to complete an extra chest or grind a few more provinces here and there, so be it.

I am now well informed of how the gacha game model works. They make a F2P game and get 90% of their profits from whales.

It’s the same way that a luxury carmaker stays in business. Instead of making a million affordable cars, they make a thousand “limited edition” cars and charge a fortune for each one.

If it were my company? I’d prefer to get $5 each from a million players than $5000 each from a thousand players.

And of course, someone would tell me that I was a fool for choosing small profits from many over huge profits from a few.

But to them, I would simply point to real world companies. Walmart in the U.S. has become hugely successful by selling low priced items to lots of consumers. Meanwhile, many other more expensive retailers are now starting to declare bankruptcy.

Carmakers. Which manufacturer is more successful overall: Ford or Ferrari?

1 Like
31

GOOGLE TRANSLATION

I’ve been calculating how difficult the summons are and it makes you want to cry, let’s remember that uploading a hero sometimes has a 20% and 50% chance of leveling up 8/8 and you get tired of giving him food, imagine yourself in the bonus lottery and legendary heroes who barely reach at least 3% between them. A total abuse, those invocations could be at least 7% and 8% each. and even then it would still be difficult to obtain. Take as an example training field 20 that out of 10 comes out 1 out of 5 *, 2 out of 4 * and 7 out of 3 *.

Also event invocations, you invoke in an event et voila !! You get all the heroes of season I, at least give more priority to the event if it is an event.

You are exactly correct in your calculations, friend. This game is charging people far too much money with such horrible odds and such little rewards in return.

Estás exactamente en lo correcto en tus cálculos, amigo. Este juego le está cobrando a la gente demasiado dinero con tan horribles probabilidades y tan pocas recompensas a cambio.

32

Ferrari, menos carros, pero más caros. jijijiji

1 Like
33

SG cree que sus héroes son tan valiosos como los Ferrari.

Esperan que la gente gaste miles de dólares en ellos.

No hablo español con fluidez. Estoy usando el traductor de Google para estas publicaciones. Pido disculpas si no se están traduciendo correctamente.

1 Like
34

están correcta, porque tampoco hablo ni escribo ingles con fluidez y uso el traductor de Google. Pronto crecerá la comunidad hispano hablante.

Yo amo este juego, luego de que conocí Empires & Puzzles casi no juego nada más… tengo dos cuentas que pasan de nivel 50 ambas. Es fantastico el juego, con fallas pero mejorable que es lo mejor.

Mantienen buenos eventos y nuevas funcionalidades… me gusta.

1 Like
35

También me gusta el juego. Hay problemas que creo que deben solucionar.

El inglés es mi idioma principal, pero deseo aprender más idiomas.

ENGLISH TRANSLATION EDIT

Before anyone starts flagging these posts for being “off topic”… allow me to offer translations.

Ferrari, menos carros, pero más caros. jijijiji

Ferrari, fewer cars, but more expensive. hee hee

SG cree que sus héroes son tan valiosos como los Ferrari.

Esperan que la gente gaste miles de dólares en ellos.

No hablo español con fluidez. Estoy usando el traductor de Google para estas publicaciones. Pido disculpas si no se están traduciendo correctamente.

SG believes their heroes are as valuable as Ferraris.

They expect people to spend thousands of dollars on them.

I am not fluent in Spanish. I am using google translate for these posts. I apologize if they are not being translated correctly.

están correcta, porque tampoco hablo ni escribo ingles con fluidez y uso el traductor de Google. Pronto crecerá la comunidad hispano hablante.

Yo amo este juego, luego de que conocí Empires & Puzzles casi no juego nada más… tengo dos cuentas que pasan de nivel 50 ambas. Es fantastico el juego, con fallas pero mejorable que es lo mejor.

Mantienen buenos eventos y nuevas funcionalidades… me gusta.

They are correct, because I neither speak nor write English fluently and I use the Google translator. Soon the Spanish speaking community will grow.

I love this game, after I met Empires & Puzzles I hardly play anything else… I have two accounts that both pass level 50. The game is fantastic, with flaws but it can be improved, which is the best.

They keep good events and new features… I like it.

También me gusta el juego. Hay problemas que creo que deben solucionar.

El inglés es mi idioma principal, pero deseo aprender más idiomas.

I also like the game. There are problems that I think they must solve.

English is my main language, but I want to learn more languages.

36

My thread has 0 votes, including my own because I put it in general discussion to see what the community thought About this idea before putting together an idea with a full outline. Guvnor moved it to this forum section.

@yelnats_24 are you the guy who tells everyone why they are wrong al the time without actively contributing to a solution? Or worse the guy who would let the field burn, just so long as it doesn’t burn down his house?

37

The way I see it, there is no problem. But if you change it, there will be problems.

You are the one who propose the change without considering the implications and problems that will arise because of it. Now you tell me to give the solution? I say no change no problem no need for solution.

If you don’t like your idea be examined, why post it?

2 Likes
38

I agree that it seems to be more restrictive in about the last 2 months. I used to accelerate raid boxes so that I can regularly fill two a day and a monster box just if it’s going to appear just after I go to sleep. Now if I minorly accelerate raid boxes (and we’re talking maybe spending 3-4 gems a day) I lose the ability to skip a monster box at all.

Can anyone post what the current limits on skips now are? and why wasn’t this in a build release notes?

1 Like
39

So you want a free for all on farming? Not going to happen.

40

I’d rather it just go back to how it was. You can still skip 3 times per day with an unlimited number of gems spent on each one. But you can’t do 4 skips of 1-2 gems each. Really cramping my style of filling chests.