Rebalance Vanilla 5* heroes (non-costumed ones)

@rilian I went back in a old topic to find this post with more ideas:

People just sit down and get shafted by the game and support their decisions to shaft everyone. I like the idea to make S1 5 stars more useful. Even just reshaping their special can greatly help the games appeal. Yes they already released costume paywall but why can’t the costumes be stupid good like some are and the reg hero also be more usable and competitive. Is the game going to shaft us either way? Of course. At least speak up and let them know you hate being shafted. I would have rather tried and tell them things sucks. It’s all opinion though and that’s mine. I think if they are “rebalancing” hero’s S1 definitely needs it too. I like how they are nerfing the HOTM that won’t get them as much money as people instead having to keep trying for BK, Guin and so on. “Telluria is too good and needs to be nerfed”. Well let me tell you “Season 1 hero’s suck and need to be buffed”.

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I think a lot of people consider costumes to be the buff vanilla heroes needed. But costumes are not vanilla heroes. They’re barely related.

If I drew a costume Azlar, it does not make my base Azlar more valuable (except as a head start in experience). The costume comes with a copy of the original already, so the base Azlar I already drew will still feel worthless, yes? And drawing a vanilla Azlar alone does not give me any progress to having the costume. My base Azlar would only be a glorified trainer hero for my costume, right?

I think Azlar’s costume should be considered an entirely separate hero from the original one, with no relation. It’s not a buff for Azlar; it’s an entirely separate hero and does nothing to make vanilla Azlar more useful. That’s my standpoint. Costumes don’t fix vanillas in even the slightest degree; it’s simply another summon portal.

Have I missed something?

Yes. Because if you pulled one Azlar, you can make all your Azlars costumed. So, pull one costume, then just use TC for get more heroes.

So, costumes is a buff and a hero too.

You’re missing the fact that maxing the costume also increases the vanilla version’s stats (+5% atk/def, +10% hp and a whopping 5% mana gen).

For a lot of cases, it pushes the vanilla hero from mediocre to good and from good to great.

Yeah, we can consider costumes as cheap to level premium mana troop’s extenders under this scenario.

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Too much. Average mana is a non-starter.

Reasonable

Leo is OK. Giving him like 400% damage seems fair.

Seems OK.

Yeah

I think this undermines riposte a bit too much, which has already taken a beating.

I’d make her fast but the costume would be OP then.

Reasonable, but she doesn’t really need balance.

I think she’s OK as is, maybe an attack boost.

I’d just up his attack a bit.

I like this one, would make him a viable green tank for C2P without Telluria.

Yes

Too much. Elena is OK as is.

Same, Azlar is fine.

Marjana is good as is.

Way too strong

Ok

Do not agree. Rigard now beats Vivica in every level. Even if Vivica will be average, she will be worse than Ariel.

Maybe. But Joon is better.

Agree.

Fast Domitia is exactly Seshat.

I do not think than adding a little bit of defence is too much.

For ONLY red sniper she must be stronger. If her DoT will be 2 turns, she will be way better anti-Telly machine.

Why? -34% vs Ice is lower than -54% Frida and Arthur. And Thorne will not have other features of this heroes.

Rigard with costume also beats Kunchen, a 5 star HOTM on offense. If anything you’d balance by nerfing the far and away best 4 star in the game (I wouldn’t though).

Average Vivica would be close to a wash with Ariel. Average Vivica with costume would be just ridiculous, charging in 9 tiles with a lvl 5 mana troop.

Right- but the goal should be to make vanilla heroes usable, not to make them as good as the most elite heroes in the game.

I’m fine with the defense, but making Elena average would be too strong. Making slow heroes average is one of the biggest buffs you can do, since it now makes 9 tiles possible.

So my theory here is- I’m not F2P or C2P, have tons of non season 1 heroes…if I still use a S1 hero on raids regularly, they don’t need to be buffed. They are at least servicable. Marjana falls into this category.

The heroes that need rebalance are the ones that can’t even compete in diamond, like Horghall.

Even with his laughable attack stat, Thorne hits 3 targets really hard. That’s a strong feature in and of itself. With this change, Thorne would now beat King Arthur and Master Lepus imo.

Better change would just be to balance his stats so he hits harder.

With costume - agree. But without costume Vivica seems underwhelming now.

They should now be as good as most. They should be only slightly worse, and you should not ascend dupe Seshat over Domitia (but should ascend first Seshat, of course).

If they will release a HoTM red sniper - why whale will use Marjana anymore?
Now Marjana have underwhelming attack, underwhelming sp. attack power, and only color saves her (only one red sniper).

Horghall needs a huge buff, like Atomos. Not slightly rebalance.

I will prefer to reduce his special attack a little bit and add an elemental defence debuff.

So again, this is just “as designed” in my opinion. It would be the same as dark, where F2P/C2P use Sartana and whales use Seshat. The HoTM is clearly superior, but if you had to use Sartana it’s not like you’re at an overwhelming disadvantage.

Seshat is not just a HoTM, she’s a premium, top-tier HoTM. If you make S1 heroes like Domitia just slightly worse, you’ve also made her better than most event heroes/HoTM.

How would this fit into the business model that the game is built on?

I think there should not be “top-tier” and “underwhelming by design” HoTMs. All HoTMs should be upgraded to look equal and slightly better than S1.

Why Sartana should be better than Thoth-Amun? This is also will not fit into their business model AFAIK)

Maybe. But Marjana has worst attack stat even in vanilla sniper world. So, she need something to compensate this. And update her HoT for 2 turns will make her more unique and firey for me.

And then she and GM will be like Joon and Drake now.

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