Rebalance Old Heroes

Balancing old heroes seemed to be a constant theme regarding past updates and beta versions, but the latest tests and rollouts haven’t seemed to include any. There are still many legendary heroes who are woefully underpowered and an utter disappointment to anyone who has pulled them—especially to the f2p and c2p players for whom these rare heroes may be the only legendary pulls they ever receive in a particular element, let alone within a particular class.

Please consider continuing to tweak these old heroes.

Maybe this post can serve to collect beta players’ feedback regarding which heroes they believe still need rebalancing. (Please keep in mind all the players and heroes available and not just the heroes on your own roster.) Which heroes do you believe still need work? Which heroes have you heard other players in your alliance roundly disparage and discourage other players from investing in?

Thoth-Amun, Perseus, Horghall, Elkanen, Khagan, Obakan, and Thorne are all major disappointments. And to a lesser extent, Domitia, Quintus, Justice, Sargossa, Kestrel, Boss Wolf, and Rumplestilstin all could use a little minor tweaking as well.

Kelile, Hu Tao, Boomer, Danzaburo, Agwe, and Gobbler among the epic heroes could all probably use a little help too.

I’m excited about the implementation of classes and for the new things planned for 2019, but please keep in mind these older heroes, and consider the players for whom these heroes may be all they’re lucky enough to receive.

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Agreed but the heroes that already got buffed doesn’t need anymore balancing. However I will add that heroes that got nerfed even a tiny bit can now be returned to normal because of all the circle of life of abundance of heroes that can kill/eat each other.

but remember that in these type of games there needs to be strong and weak heroes. if the hero is weak, what hero can support/ buff/ enhance each other to have a good chance of beating the strong heroes.

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Moderator’s note

@Cpt.Ahab - I’m moving this out of beta because it’s not actually discussing beta content, and I think there are non-beta players who may have good thoughts on these topics.

Note that there are many individual threads discussion players’ ideas on rebalancing heroes.

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Is future changes and decisions not BETA content in a sense?

Agwe (cleric) could be simply be class-swapped with Kiril (wizard), I think it would be much better for both heroes. Agwe’s SS will work very well with wizard’s Jinx and perfectly fill the gap between Ulmer and Isarnia, both blue heroes with AoE specials.
And Kiril would finally be a cleric… I really have no words for his present wizard class :see_no_evil:

So even putting the old heroes in the right class could be a simple solution to give them some love.

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No, it isn’t–otherwise the whole #ideas-feature-requests category would be beta, right? SGG has asked that beta boards only be used to discuss what’s actively in testing.

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meh okay. i guess us beta testers can’t have a little fun and changes in here. sometimes things get drowned out in the public forum.

Thanks, @Kerridoc. I thought about posting it here, but I was afraid it’d get lost in the noise.

The developers need to continue to tweak these old heroes. The implementation of the class system makes it all the more imperative.

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I was going to move it to #active-player-lounge but you’re not there. :frowning:

Hmm. Is there something I’d need to do to get there?

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See Fast Pass to Active Player Lounge

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Hu Tao and Little John are often maligned because of their slow mana, but both can be extremely useful for events and quests. And I think Hu Tao is the more frequently maligned of the two, so I’m going to use LJ as a comparison to justify buffing Hu Tao a bit.

LJ is squishy but has the advantage of a high attack stat, so at least he’s also useful for titans and makes a difference when he goes off.

Comparatively, Hu Tao is a pile of blubber for defense and hp stats, but his attack stat and AoE percentage are low enough that he doesn’t do much damage when he hits. Blind is incredibly powerful in this game, but so is a mana debuff like LJ — which is also a guaranteed debuff, vs blindness that gives a chance to miss.

Comparatively, I don’t think Hu Tao being a meat shield makes him balanced with LJ as a benchmark for another slow Epic hero with a powerful special.

I think a little buff — nothing huge — to Hu Tao’s attack stat, or his AoE percentage, would make him a lot more usable, and more in keeping with the benchmark of Epic season 1 heroes.

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I agree, Zeph. Little John and Colen are excellent 4-star slow heroes; Hu Tao is not. A slight buff to his attack stat and a little nudge to his special damage will be a welcome addition.

Justice, similar to Hu Tao, is in need of a minor tweak. Held up to Hu Tao, she’s not distinctive enough, and put up against Drake Fong, she looks like a joke. Upping Justice’s damage a tad and her chance to miss from 35% to 45% would be enough to balance her out.

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Cyprian is kind of a odd ball hero to be getting the Paladin class, I think.

On the one hand, you can say his tank-like HP allows him to take some hits, and you’d generally want his defense not extremely spectacular because Riposte causes more damage to the opponent if he was hit harder (assuming he had enough HP to take it). On the first node upgrade, 5% chance doesn’t happen much, but if the final class update gets the Protect activated 30% of the time, it means the Riposte is not going to be as effective when it comes on if the Riposte is active during those 2 turns that Protect is on.

On the other hand, if going up against strong hitting monsters/Titans/heroes with talents who will hit harder than what you currently have, you would probably need to have that protection to prolong his survivability. Fortunately, that talent only applies to himself and not his flankers.

I hadn’t thought the rebalancing discussed here to concern classes, but you are right. Cyprian would make, like Boril, an excellent cleric.

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This is a matter close to my heart. I’m F2P and Aegir is my only 5*, and my only blue hero above 3*.

My only green above 3* is Skittleskull.

There are plenty of other threads for Aegir. I think boosting Skit’s attack or SS % damage a bit would help too

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This is quite a big list and I would actually disagree with some. E.g Kelile is imho perfectly fine. The generally agreed among many of general discussions threads are Thorne, Quintus, Boss Wolf, Rumpelstiltskin, Boomer.

But, what exactly do you suggest for them? I suggested that Thorne can get boost to his damage to 512% in the thread 1 post above (pity that thread didn’t have any follow up from SGG). What exactly do you suggest to do with each of these or each of those you suggested?

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It will definitely make a fully talented Cyprian more dangerous if he was a Cleric, means there is a 35% chance you can’t steal mana or seal his mana gain. Cleric class already made Rigard even more potent than he already is, had Rigard and Cyprian switched classes, Rigard will actually still be awesome with Paladin (he is a Cavalier by trade), but it will make both formidable, instead of a crippling effect on Cyprian.

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Something similar to the incremental changes SG used to implement regularly would work. Ten points in an attack stat here, a 5-10% damage increase there. Until they come in line with other, similar heroes.

Thoth’s minion could gain 5% attack and 5% HP and his overall attack damage could see a 5% boost.

Perseus’ damage could go from 355% to 365% (if not 375).

Horghall’s attack stat could see a 10-15 point boost and his damage-all go from 225 to 235%.

Elkanen could see a small bump in his damage and 10-15% increase in his life absorption.

Justice’s damage could go up 5% and her blind from a Hu Tao-level 35% to a legendary 45%.

Khagan’s damage could go up 15% to his target and 8% to those nearby. His defense buff could also probably see a 10% buff.

Domitia could see a damage increase, or her dispel could be changed to affect all enemies.

Saragossa could see his damage buffed another 5%, and Kestrel’s base damage another 10%.

And similarly with the heroes you recognize as subpar (Wolf, Thorne, Quintus, and Rump), give them a buff.

None of these changes would make any of these heroes OP (or more desirable than your Zelines and Panthers and Kages and Graves), but they would all make these heroes more desirable, and so incrementally work to balance the game.

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