[Rant] An unhealthy obsession with Stronghold 25

[Gryphonknight]

Subject
[Rant] An unhealthy obsession with Stronghold 25

Stronghold 25

@KiraSG

It is our opinion that the solution should not be the last tier of an Advanced building, something that a very small group of players would be able to benefit from. Instead, we would like to, at some point down the line find a better way to solve the problem so that it would be accessible to a wider range of players.

I feel SGG became unhealthily attached to Hero Academy being a Stronghold 25 building with 10 levels.

It feels like they built Stronghold 25, now they feel it must unlock features denied to Stronghold 5.

Next tier advanced buildings unlock at Stronghold 10 ( Barracks ), 21 ( Hunter’s Lodge ), 23 ( Alchemy lab ), and 25 ( Hero Academy).

They could have all unlocked at Stronghold 5, or 10.

Next tier advanced buildings Lodge and Academy only have 10 recipes. Barracks has 0 recipes ( or 50 depending on you perspective). Forge has 20 recipes. Lab v2.0 has 20 recipes.

They all could have had recipes starting at Stronghold 5, or 10, and going to Stronghold 25. A total of 20, 50, 100 recipes.

Training camps could have added ways to retrain single color heroes. blue 3* → blue 3*.

Forge could have added minor versions of Lodge items. Minor scroll of alteration.

Barracks could have added ways to retrain single color troops. blue 3* → blue 3*.

SGG seems locked into this mind set that new code HAS to be unlocked by further progression instead of retroactively giving it to bases with Stronghold 20, or 10, or 5.

One of the most influential moments of my RPG experience was TSR adding level 0 cantrips to a level 1-9 spell casting system. This solved a problem of Beginning characters having a SINGLE spell per 24 hours ( my house rule solution was to start all players at level 5 thus giving them more spells per 24 hours ).

RPG games do this all the time. Adding books/ rules that transform level 1 players to level 70 players. Adding books/ rules that fill in missed opportunities. Adding books/ rules that fix game play issues that players have faced for years.

Niantic’s Ingress, Pokemon GO and Wizards Unite show this works with mobile MMO. Adding Drones for the Pandemic stuck Ingress player, Team Rocket grunts for weather locked/ biome locked Pokémon GO players, Red books to brilliant events for Wizard players that want to explore multiple wizard classes.

I would love to have 2*, and 3*, mana troops.

Make Caltrops, and Scroll of Alteration, available in Forge with stronger versions effecting target, and nearby, with stronger versions effecting all enemies, with 5* versions ( using titan parts ) effecting all 4x waves of a stage or lasting 180 minutes.

I would love to retrain extra yellow 3* heroes to Bane, extra yellow 4* heroes to Wu Kong, extra 5* yellow heroes to Vivica.

It is frustrating that insanely useful programming code is locked behind long build times, huge amounts of resources, and then given a nano scale focus.

New code should unlock when it is helpful, and useful, to the player.

New code should use resources, and real world time, scaled to when it is helpful, and useful, to the player.

New code should transform the game experience for players just starting out, to Elders playing 3+ years.

SGG did try it once. And while I strongly disagree with the decisions they made (I even offered a fix), it was the one time SGG exceeded my expectation for Empires. I still have a momento of that time. I still think there are ways it could be added to the game ( see squires in notes ).

Like TSR adding level 0 cantrips to a level 1-9 spell casting system, new code should make most players say “Thanks SGG, that really made Empires better.”

Notes

Click for notes

@From another discussion

Bag of holding

Hero Academy is currently the ultimate building.

If a player constructs a Hero Academy level 10, they also unlock a permanent +2 item storage per battle item slot. This bonus stacks with Bag of Holding’s +2 for a total of +4.

Maybe unlock +1 at level 5 and a second +1 at level 10.

This would also allow using those development cycles like Seshat is using the cloning minion program code from Beta elf minions.

Improved Alchemy lab

If a player constructs an Alchemy lab level 10, they also unlock a permanent +1 battle item SLOT for a total of 5 battle item slots. Example a team could have 10x Arrow attack, 5x Axe attack, 5x Bomb attack, 5x Dragon attack and 5x Harpoons equipped.

Lots of players were excited when they thought Bag of holding added slots instead of storage.

Alchemy lab has a bad reputation to many vocal users. They were hoping for something closer to a forge for Alchemy lab and Hero academy. The Bag of holding code is already written. This would just expand on the current program code.

Improved Barracks level 01

Click for Improved Barracks level 01

Edit:

This idea is a mess, but for a rough draft it is good enough

@Gryphonknight

It seems weird that 1* 1.1 heroes are better than 5*+20 for Titanium shields.

Another option is to restore the Titanium shield to the original version but change the duration based on rarity.

I blame Improved Barracks level 01 on the above Advanced building ideas and the current weirdness with Titanium shields. Just the idea of users deciding between 1* 1.1 heroes and 2*+20 heroes for squires when equipping Titanium shields makes me want to cackle evilly.

An Improved Barracks level 01 adds “squires”. This is the first level of Barracks not the final level.

Squires are 1* / 2* heroes that match the color of their “knight”. Example a 5x purple team would have 5x purple 1* / 2* squires.

Just like hero advanced color stacking, a squire adds its attack stat to normal/ tile/ matching damage of the same color.

This would help with the 5*+20 war defense team problem since attack would increase but defense would not increase.

@Gryphonknight

There is very likely an attack stat soft cap. Defense stat is not linear. And 5*+20 get a multiplier of x1.2 for defense stat ( as @Garanwyn pointed out about 5*+20 heroes more than a year ago ).

They can be 1*+20 / 2*+20 ( driving emblem, and hero storage slot, sales ) so that program code is used. A maximum, full set of squires would be 5x rainbow 2*+20 squires ( 25x heroes total ).

2* squires would unlock at Barracks level 10.

When a “knight” dies, they are replaced on the defense team/ attack team by their squire. A squire gains no mana, and cannot proc its talent, until it replaces its knight on the team.

If both the knight, and the squire are dead, the squire remains on the team. This would also add more RNG to battles since 2*+20 heroes cost less to emblem than 5*+20 heroes. This would make 2* rangers, sorcerers, etc. more useful.

If their knight is revived, the knight replaces the squire on the defense team/ attack team. Revive has a chance to revive all dead knights and all dead squires. Healing a knight also heals their squire.

Like troops squires can be reused in war.

War loot, and Raid loot, is given a +20% bonus ( with an eye catching notification ) if squires are present on the raid defense team/ war battlefield.

Click for tournaments

If there were squires, then 2* tournaments could be added back to the rotation.

Even a 2* tournament once per 32 weeks would be viable if players already had 2*+20 heroes for squires.

Advanced buildings

Having buildings effect game play going forward could also offer flexibility to the Design team without impacting 5* HotM/ 4* ascension item/ Hero XP marketplace.

Advanced iron storage, Advanced food storage and Advanced house could also be given game bonuses to make them more popular.

Having Advanced buildings effect game play would STRONGLY encourage VIP pass for competitive users.

Notes

([Suggestion] Add a Mana bonus 2* troop)

Why have I not posted this under Ideas & Feature Requests ? First, both versions of Alchemy lab. Second version 1 of Hero Academy.

I write up suggestions to get them out of my head, but given the small size of SGG, I have given up all hope that my ideas will improve the game for anyone - me, other players, SGG employees.

FIN

[TheDayHasCome]

They’re “locked in” because the game is on autopilot now. Nobody at SGG is paying attention to this game anymore, that’s VERY clear.

When’s the last time they were responsive to feedback OR put out a feature that improved the game?

[Disposable]

I missed this post the first time around, just found it while searching for something else.

Agree with your thesis 100%.

[Blord]

Hero Academy level 10 is pretty much the endgame. All heroes are possible to summon here. If you reach this level then you should have some dupes or useless 5* from tc20. Then it’s just a matter of time to get the good heroes. SG want to delay this level as much possible.

[greybat]

SG: we would like to … so that it would be accessible to a wider range of players.

Also SG: make HA at SH25, small chance of non vanilla heroes from HA10, ridiculous time building upgrades.

[NDarkNS]

This game has potential, but will never happen

[Nexus1254]

@Blord

Hero Academy level 10 is pretty much the endgame. All heroes are possible to summon here

While I agree that most of the heroes can be trained there, I think it’s not that easy. You still need a 5* per each training. And the odds are not that great.

[Blord]

By the time you reach HA10 your tc20 have been running for a while. I’m sure tc20 will produce some 5* heroes if you are running them multi tc20. Not all S1 5* heroes are usefull.

[Nexus1254]

I agree. I have 9 heroes produced by TC20 to get into the HA10. My point is that it might take years 'till I’ll convert those 9 heroes into something really useful from HA10. This HA10 is not the end of the game.

[DracoLovesRi]

The point was, they could allow you to build HA earlier and level it up gradually. The forge can be built and new recipes obtained as SH advances. The barracks is available from SH10, and can be leveled as SH advances. Strangely, builders shouldn’t be wasted on the barracks until at least getting the SH15 buildings anyway. SGG just puts stuff in the game slapped together.