Raids: fair or unfair?


#675

I take it you are referring to your post above, in which you state your assumption that I’m not here to have an open and honest discussion. (I am, by the way.)

Thoughts:

  1. I didn’t flag your post. My preference is for that sort of passive-aggressive post to stand, because it’s a gilt-edged invitation for me to reply.

  2. If your post has been hidden, that suggests that either multiple people have flagged it (one is not enough) or a moderator has.

  3. It’s possible that your post was flagged precisely because [edited by Rook] some are not interested in this discussion descending into a slanging match.

Bearing this all in mind, I cordially invite you once again to … express your concerns in a rational manner. What do you think you are experiencing that is different from a random experience? Why do you think you are experiencing the game in this way? If something real is happening, what would be the developers’ incentives for building it? How might we measure this? How might we test for it?


#676

Well, that is weird. In the system message there was a link to the post that I edited. That is how I opened that post in the first place.

Okay, so it was indeed actually that other post. I see that it’s still hidden. Let’s keep it that way. I was being sincere there, but looking back on it, maybe I shouldn’t have expressed my irritation that way. Let’s not forget that this was after you called me paranoid, found it necessary to point out my misspelling of ‘leech’, where you yourself wouldn’t even have the slightest clue about the Dutch word for it, (‘bloedzuiger’ in case you’re wondering, literally translates to ‘bloodsucker’) and what not, which I thought were cheap shots too.

Where did we go wrong Brobb? If you’re serious about being here for honest and open discussions, then I’m open to a new start.

I’ll get back to you tomorrow, because it’s almost 2:00 AM here at the moment and I need to get some sleep.


#677

@FrostyStache

One piece of advice from me:
Do not waste your time going in circles with a certain person in this forum. Such an endeavor is a complete waste of your life energy. Which could certainly be utilized for more worthwhile pursuits.

The best course of action is to ignore that person completely. Unless, of course, you enjoy being insulted :wink:


#678

Ok, I must preface this with the comment that it is meant with the best of intentions, but Brobb actually has read your post entirely and thoroughly. She always does read posts thoroughly before responding. I am not friends with Brobb nor do I know her Personally, but we both have been posting in this Forum for over a year now and I am very familiar with her input.

In this case she is spot on and it is good advice. Is there any reason that you cannot apply actual unbiased analysis to the situation? I don’t think so. Yes, it can be frustrating, especially when you have a raid box to fill. Otherwise just realize that Trophies really don’t mean much at all. Its not like you can trade them for something of value.

I have two accounts in this game and, yes, I have runs of bad boards. It happens to everyone and sometimes at the most inopportune time. There are times when screens have runs where one element just won’t show up. Try another hero combination when that happens. I guarantee that element will start showing up eventually. Then change back. You do have 5 team slots you can set up.

When I get ready to start raiding, I generally set up 4 different teams and switch out depending on 1. Which hero combination I am up against (Logical) and 2. How the boards appear to be running (illogical).

No matter how the raids turn out I just move on to the next thing when they are done. I don’t sweat it. I generally am always raiding in the top 100 with both accounts, so my raids are nearly always challenging, but even then I can sometimes recover from an unfortunate board if I just keep making the best moves possible.

All of that being said: 1. Take Brobb’s advice and apply actual unbiased analysis 2. Stop sweating the trophies and try to have fun win or lose because the trophies really don’t mean much at all. 3. This is an RNG game and there will be variability. This can be tempered with your skill/ability if you just keep your head and keep making the best moves possible.


#679

The advantage is with the attacking side. Have beaten offensive side with 700 team power more than me. i.e 3400 vs 4100. 2x 5* partially level + 3 x 4*. The trick is fast to very fast man heroes, and colour stacking. See video below.


#680

#681

It’s unfair to be beaten by a team 700 team point below you, esp if you have maxed out 5*.


#682

No it isn’t unfair. It’s RNG. Otherwise we’d just compare strengths of teams and shake hands rather than play it out.


#683

Absolutely. There is randomness in all competition, if a racing driver has a random engine failure, a random crash etc , they can’t argue that their car was more powerful so they deserve to win anyway.


#684

The blame game gets old pretty quickly, doesn’t it? You wouldn’t have maligned my intentions if I hadn’t corrected your spelling of ‘leech’; I wouldn’t have corrected your spelling of ‘leech’ if you hadn’t compared me to a leech; you wouldn’t have compared me to a leech if I hadn’t characterized you as paranoid; I wouldn’t have characterised you as paranoid if you hadn’t presumed to unilaterally end our conversation, and on and on until we figure out who assassinated Archduke Ferdinand. It’s all a bit pointless.

In my experience Dutch people are generally better at speaking English than I am and English is my first language. Needless to say you are right about my own ignorance of your language: the only Dutch words I know are ‘stroopwafel’ and ‘bespreekbaarheid’, both of which I indulge in a little too much, perhaps to my detriment.

So let’s have that new start and an open, honest discussion, without offence being given or taken.


#685

That’s so beautifully conciliatory

giphy%20(35)


#686

Typically anything personally attacking another’s person, intentions, etc will generally get flagged as inappropriate or off-topic. :slight_smile:


#687

Except for calling each other paranoid apparently :wink: . But it’s okay, the chill is out of the air again. Thanks for answering, Rook.


#688

Well, there we have the first positive outcome of our discussion: you can add the word ‘bloedzuiger’ to your list of Dutch words :wink: Let me add another one: een nieuw begin (a new start)

Okay, new start. First of all, and I really want to emphasize this: my complaint is not that the game is against me. It may have come across that way, but it really isn’t. My complaint is that the outcome of raids seems to be predetermined in far too many cases. This is (was? I’ll come back to that) also true for winning raids. I emphasized the games where I lost because, yes, those are the most frustrating. But this doesn’t change my complaint to “I’m losing too many raids”.

I also don’t claim that this presumed predetermination is something that was deliberately built in. I don’t know the reason, I just know what I observe. So let’s get back to that.

But first though, what ticked me off? Well, there are a couple of aspects here. First of all, before I wrote my first post, I’d been telling myself for weeks that this must be just perception, again and again. Until things got so absurd, that I finally ruled that possibility out. Secondly, we all have personal weaknesses and one of mine is a clearly above average need to be taken seriously. I’m especially allergic to people who are just joining discussions to win them. I know all their tricks and it’s getting so, so old. On top of the list is to simply ignore the arguments that don’t suit you. This is what I believed was happening in our discussion. I realize now that I may well have been wrong and I apologize.

With that out of the way, let’s get back to the real subject. I’ll start by giving you some background info on my team. I’ve been playing this game only since June of this year (but don’t worry, I understand it well enough for this discussion), so yes, I still have a weak team, 25xx TP. I have only just reached camp level 12 to be able to create 3* heroes. This means that my team is built up from the 3* and 4* heroes that I just happened to receive first: Tyrum, Wu Kong, Kailani, Kiril and Belith. I also have Bane, but I replaced him by Tyrum who came in later. This means my team has a couple of particular trades:

  • I’m depending quite heavily on yellow tiles with two yellow heroes and red tiles are worthless to me
  • With two healers and Kailani on my team, it is heavy on the defence and has very little ‘punch’ as long as Wu Kong’s special ability is not activated
  • Wu Kong is a special case on itself with his Gamblers Stance

Each of these trades make my team more dependable on luck. I realize this very well. Give me too little yellow tiles and I’ll lose from a much weaker team, give me a lot of yellow and I’ll wipe out a much stronger team with ease.

But is that a problem for our discussion? I don’t believe that it is. Since I don’t have many means of changing my team, my team has been a pretty constant factor. And that is exactly what you want in statistics: as little other influences on what happens as possible.

Okay, numbers. Needless to say that I haven’t been counting so far. I have some ideas, but it’s complex and getting a really complete picture will almost take a scientific study. But here a completely unexpected problem arises.

I wrote my first post after more than a full day of utter misery in my raids. I’m not one for wasting raid energy, so I must have played at least 20 of them and added to that I used a blue bottle simply because I couldn’t believe what was going on. So 26 raids and in a vast majority I was not only defeated, but crushed with 4 or all 5 of the enemies still standing. And in the vast majority I had no means what so ever to do anything about it. This was the moment that, after many weeks of doubt about all the extremely good and extremely bad raids constantly bundled together, I came to the conclusion that something was definitely wrong and that I came to this forum.

And it was around that time, that the raids changed completely. Ever since, I haven’t had a single raid where the board was largely locked up for a longer time, let alone whole series of those raids. I’ve had many close and enjoyable fights. I’m losing some of them, but never in the completely powerless fashion anymore that happened so often before. Literally not a single one. I’m winning a number of times, but only once I had one of those raids where I thought I was going to lose, but was saved by an unexpected massive combo. This is how it’s supposed to be.

I don’t have a clue as to why this is happening. I can almost hear you say: perception. But no. Perception only enlarges actual events, it rarely creates non-existing events. Your perception may tell you that it’s been raining all day, where in fact it was just 60% of the time. It still has been raining a lot, just not as much as you think. Likewise perception may well have made me see that day as worse then it actually was, it still was a day full of getting slaughtered with my hands tied to my back. I’ve been thinking about the update that came after the season 2 update. It was around that time, but I’m not sure at all anymore if it was installed on that exact moment. Something else that has been changed is that I’ve finally started to upgrade Wu Kong again, after waiting for the right items for quite a while. But I can’t see how that would be connected. And no, I do not believe that some admin saw that I was on to them and flipped a switch :wink:

Anyway, the problem is that there isn’t much to count now. I have been making screenshots of the boards at the start of each raid though for reference, in case it should change back again. Other than that I can’t do very much at the moment.

I have been thinking about randomizers though. I assume that each single tile is randomized. And changed under certain conditions (*). Theoretically a buggy randomizer could scatter the tiles. But only in one direction. Let’s assume that the board is build up in the horizontal direction, then it could theoretically minimise the number of horizontal matches. However, if the number of vertical matches is minimised as well, then not only does the randomizer have to select a different tile from the previous one too often, it also has to select a different tile from the 7 tiles earlier too often (same column, previous row). Though not completely impossible, this seems highly unlikely to me. Hmm…

(*) Somebody here said that the developers have stated that the boards are completely random, but if they were, then very often some tiles would be automatically fired off as soon as the board appears. This doesn’t happen (fortunately), so a randomly determined tile is corrected when it causes a row of three with the same colour. This presumably happens by randomizing again until there’s no match of three or more tiles anymore, but it still breaks perfect randomizing.


#689

To everybody whom I haven’t answered yet, I hope the above message to Brobb will provide answers to your posts as well. I’m sorry that I couldn’t check your messages anymore, but this is proving to be quite time consuming…


#690

Thanks for taking the time to reply with what appears to be care and thought. I’ll read what you’ve written closely and give it due consideration before I reply properly. I’m pleased we’re talking. We’re estranged halves of the same ancient soul. Obviously.


#691

Admittedly, off topic…but I’m a bit of a history buff. Wasn’t it Gavrilo Princip (sp?) :thinking:

I’m also glad to see the back and forth between yourself and Frosty is taking a more positive turn. Perhaps it will provide some help to those who are having difficulty with raids (for whatever reason).


#692

Firstly, this is a long-ish reply, but bear with me, i’m explaining something I observed today about raids and I think if you follow my logic you’ll be surprised but unable to fault my deductions.

I’ve been playing about the same as you, and i noticed a similar trend with raids and tile layout, especially as it pertains to what options you can actually play x usually limiting you to having no option but to attack a hero with tiles of the same colour so that you do no damage AND build up their mana rapidly so they can magic attack you before you can do anything about it. It happens far too often to be random.

The thing that REALLY was odd for me today was that I had a raid where immediately, as soon as the game started and the board appeared, the tiles shuffled because there were NO playable moves in theboard as it had generated.

The fact this happened at all right at the start PROVES some things, and allows me to deduce that-

The board is generated fresh for each raid and NOT picked from a collection of templates (o5erwise why would you have a starting template with no moves available?).

But it also suggests something to me. If the board layout at start is generated completely random, then surely there would be something written into the generation code as a rule so that a board layout is not generated with zero moves available. In which case, what else could have caused this?

The answer is, the code for generating the board layout MUST be influenced or affected BY the colour of the opposing team’s heroes?

So essentially what I’m saying - and what people on here the past couple of days have said to me that I’m “jumping to conclusions” about - is that-

THE BOARD LAYOUT IS GENERATED “BASED” ON YOUR OPPONENTS HEROES.

Honestly, tell me my logic is not sound, anyone?

Then comes the next question. If this is true? Why? And then comes the ONLY reason I can think of - to intentionally generate a board that you CANNOT easily defeat or even fairly defeat your opponent? And again, if so, why? To control the outcome of the game and at lest slow, if not prevent you from advancing too fast so that you have to spend money on the game to be able to advance and play more.

Essentially, what i’m deducing here is it’s fixed. To make us spend more money.


#693

Okie dokie, here’s where you make a big logical leap:

As you’ve seen, there isn’t. There does appear to be some mechanism to prevent instant matches, but zero moves is still a possibility, in which case the board reshuffles immediately. That doesn’t necessarily prove or disprove that the underlying mechanics are rigged, though; it just means that the board the game randomly generated for you happened to have no moves in it. Whether that was caused by the opponent’s heroes or your heroes or my heroes or xxTiTaNzKiLlAxx’s heroes or the phases of the moon or the fish in the sea or just pure random chance, we don’t know. That last option seems like the simplest and most likely option, though.


#694

It seems to me a crucial fact for the other thread in which this is discussed, the fact that this has happened reinforces the thesis.