Raids are unfair, but not for the reasons you think

#309

I believe they are going to have a function that will track what mats/heros you get. I suspect if you track your mat drops you are getting more than you think.

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#311

Not so sure about that. I can hardly even get enough mats for mana potions for titans and i usually fill 2 world chests a day. Grimoire dust seems impossible to drop unless your in season 2 but that is so expensive energy wise

#312

lesrn where to farm what. if you need stuff but refuse to farm it im confused. season 2 1-1 hard best spot for backpacks. season to 15 -8 hard best spot for recruits and both of those ares will give you tons of craft mats. farming is farming maximizing time spent, per items recieved, at best costs to world energy.

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#313

I dont refuse to farm at all. I always farm. But season 2 doesnt seem to be worth the energy for farming esp hard mode. I have better luck with backpacks etc in season 1. I do hard mode only for tokens and i did 4 today and the drops are more plentiful but nothing to make the normal mana potions

#314

I can’t yet post my own topic, so I’ll have to comment here. My post concerns raids :slight_smile:

Has anyone noticed how much at an disadvantage you are when you are an attacker during a raid? In order to win against someone with your own strength you actually have to have pure luck, or one super hero who is more powerful than all of the other player’s heroes. Why do I say this? Firstly, the defender gets mana MUCH faster than the attacker, no matter if it is «slow» or «fast» progression. Because he gets mana every time the attacker hits one of the heroes with a cube… while the attacker gains mana by using the colors of the cubes of his respective heroes. The problem is that the mana gaines is so slow, that it is impossible to use any tactics such as going for the color of the hero you want to use, pure luck will decide it, if you get a lucky chain reaction then maybe the hero you are saving up mana-points for will get to act. But probably not, since the AI attacks the hero which color cuves were used, which means the hero will be dead before you can use your special power.
I think this is very imbalanced and a great weakness in this game.

Raids, raids, raids
#315

Yes, I have definitely noticed this, however you have to keep in mind that your opponents face the exact same obstacle when attacking you. Keep this in mind when setting up your defense team, and also remember that your opponents’ defense teams may not be the same lineup as their attack team - and for that matter, it may not even be their best defense team (see: cup dropping).

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#316

Actually, the attacker has all the advantages. Go back and read the first post in this thread. I’ll summarize it here.

First, you can choose whether to attack or reroll.
Then you can choose which heroes to use. You can tailor your attacking team to counter your opponent’s defense team. Do you need a dispeller? Do you need a mana controller? Do you need someone to cleanse status ailments from your own party. You can stack strong colors against their tank, or other big threat, even if they aren’t fully leveled high star heroes.
Then you can choose how to play the board. Can you make a diamond or dragon? When do you want to fire it? Can you ghost tiles to charge your specials while not charging theirs? If not, can you send tiles into a healer instead of a hitter?
Then you can choose when to use your own specials, and who to target. You can wait to fire your dispeller until after their buffer has fired, to get rid of it, or you can fire your mana cutter to keep them from firing. You can fire your defense debuff before your hitters to improve your damage. You can target your specials to hit the same hero until they’re dead.

With all of these advantages for the attacker, the developers consider a good defense team to be one that wins more than 50%. Most skilled attackers can win at least 60% of their raids.

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#317

I noticed this topic was merged, I read your initial post a while back, and I mostly agree with the basic premise of your argument… HOWEVER… your arguments mainly apply to high level players who (1) have enough food to reroll, and (2) have enough leveled heroes to build a custom attack team. My first few months of playing, I was stuck with Sha Ji as a healer, because I couldn’t for the life of me pull a Kiril, Melendor, Boldtusk, Sabina, or even a Belith or Hawkmoon. Never mind dispellers, cleansers and mana controllers… what the heck are you supposed to do when you pull 3 Kailanis in a row? Your advice is sound for someone who has been playing a while (or spending a lot of money), but it doesn’t change the fact that most newer players have very limited bench depth, and for those players, the raid system DOES appear to be totally unfair. I’ve done raids where my whole team got wiped before any of my specials even charged up.

I’ve been playing for months and have spent a “little” bit of money (little being a relative term compared to the big spenders here). I have a solid team but still get destroyed by teams with maxed 5* HOTMs that I can’t possibly counter with any of the teams I have, unless I get a great board. I’m not saying your argument is wrong, because if you have the right teams available, you can absolutely win difficult raids. Just pointing out that not everyone has access to a full roster of leveled heroes to tailor a custom attack team for every possible scenario.

Not saying that it’s unfair, it’s just the way it is. The players with the best teams and the right strategies get the most cups, period. Those of us who don’t have the best teams have to accept the fact that we’re not going to make it into the top echelon until our teams get better. In the meantime, we have to accept that we’re going to lose many raids, and resist the urge to flush our phones down the toilet afterward.

#318

If you’re running into teams of all maxed HotM, and you haven’t been playing long enough to develop a good bench of heroes, my hat is off to you. You must be doing a phenomenal job on the boards to be punching that far above your weight. Those skills will stand you in good stead as your bench develops and you get stronger heroes.

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#319

Thank you, I’m more or less 50/50 on my raids, just encountering a lot of opponents who are much stronger than me. I do my best with what I’ve got and I finally have some decent heroes in my roster, but that wasn’t always the case. In the beginning, I couldn’t kill a fly. Now I can kill a large bumblebee when the boards cooperate, so, progress. :smile:

I just remember how difficult raids were when I first started. The more heroes I got and the more I leveled them up, the easier things got. I was just pointing out that most new players don’t have access (or knowledge or experience) to be able to effectively utilize raid tactics to their advantage, and for these guys, it can absolutely be frustrating - which is a critical point for many new players who are trying to decide whether or not they want to continue playing the game. Just wanted to let them know that it gets better as long as they’re patient enough and open to trying different strategies.

But seriously, the first couple of months are complete @#$%. I’m at month 7 now and doing fairly decent, to the point that I don’t stress as much because I have enough leveled heroes to get good titan hits, good war scores, can win raids even when the opponent has awesome heroes that I salivate over, etc. I’m still learning, still working on my teams, not top tier but maybe I can get there some day. If not, that’s okay too, I don’t have the funds or dedication that many of you have, I’m just happy that I’m able to accomplish things that seemed impossible before.

My point was that this game can be frustrating as heck when you get bad boards and bad summons and you seem to be losing every freaking battle, and it might not even be your fault, it might just be bad luck on that particular day, or maybe you made a mistake in your lineup or maybe you just need to level your heroes a bit more. Live and learn and be patient and over time you’ll get better. I still make stupid mistakes from time to time, and I try to learn from them and change my strategy going forward. And I try not to beat myself up too much when I get a crappy board, because that’s not my fault and there’s not really anything I can do about it.

I don’t think it’s really a good policy to criticize newer players when they complain about these kinds of issues… this IS an RNG-based gacha game. The boards are NOT always “fair”. Oftentimes your opponents DO have advantages over you. People who spend more money probably WILL have better heroes than you. Or, the opposite, people who spend less money might get luckier than you, and then you’ll be complaining because you spent more money but they got the better heroes. The game is NOT always going to be “fair”, nor was it intended to be, nor for that matter SHOULD it be. The randomness is a feature, not a bug. It’s meant to keep things in balance. It’s meant to make it so that paying players can get extra stuff, but free players might get even better stuff. It rewards those who plan and strategize and put time and effort into their teams, but they can still lose to a less dedicated player due to dumb luck. Much like a casino game, a player who better understands the mechanics of the game have a slight edge, but they can still go broke on a streak of bad luck, and vice versa. That doesn’t mean the game itself isn’t fair, today just wasn’t your day. Come back again tomorrow and your results could be completely different. Or not.

The longer you play, the more you begin to understand how it works, and the more your luck evens out over time. That’s not a guarantee of either success or failure, but you can definitely improve your odds by figuring out the mechanics. By playing devil’s advocate, I was simply stating that YES the game can be frustrating and YES Lady Luck can be a fickle witch, but the best way to deal with it is to vent, learn the mechanics, understand how and why your opponent beat you (sometimes it really is just bad boards), and try to do better next time.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I know mostly everyone is angry as a hornet’s nest about this new raid tournament, but I personally am enjoying it. I don’t expect to score in the top 1% or anything, but it’s educational seeing how different teams and heroes interact with each other. Even though it’s limited to 3* heroes, I’m getting ideas on better ways to utilize not just the 3* s but also 4* and 5* in wars and raids. Also the loot is mostly junk so who cares where I place? It’s a fun diversion and I’m able to play around with different setups without wasting precious flags.

Okay sorry for the long post, I think I’ll just make this my only post for the day so that I don’t clog up the forum with all of my nonsense. Don’t mind me, I’m just an old gamer who tends to overanalyze everything and drone on far too long about things that nobody really cares about…

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#320

Ok, I really don’t care about the raids or trophies or the lack of them. I play to fill the chest, get my reward, then wait 12hrs for reset and play again. What is said here makes sense, but the system, in my opinion is very unfair. Nothing anyone can say to change my opinion. You can do what you can with what you have, but it comes down to if you get a good board. which is rare. I have won battles I had no business winning and lost battles I had no business loosing. Yes, we get to choose whether we want to battle or not to battle a certain team. I have rerolled up to 50 times and found either the teams are much stronger or teams that are weaker and we get little amount of trophies when we win and when revenged they get double or even triple the trophies you won from them putting you at a lose. I dont understand why a person with lots of trophies should loose more just because they have more. Also, I tried rerolling to get a team that is about equal to mine AND with about the same amount of trophies. Again, very very rare. So if you are one who cares about keeping and getting trophies, you will loose lots in food just to try and find even ground. I’d rather use the food to pump up heros, troops, crafting and building in the part of the game that matters. Trophies has no bearing in the game except for raids. So why bother trying? I’m not belittling those who care and like the raids. I’m just putting out my opinion. Im sure lots of you guys love the raids and there is nothing wrong with that. Have fun with it. Just as I said at the beginning I kill as many heros as I can to fill the rewards chest and trophies be damned. I enjoy and like playing the other parts of this game and I like the very crazy crazy alliance I am in “The Banter Asylum”. And banter we do. Remember, this is just a game and YOU choose to play or not play. Have fun all. Cheers.

#321

Unfair against whom?

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#322

Well, obviously it’s unfair in general. I quote:

Winning when you should be losing, completely unfair. Losing when you should be winning, understandably and obviously unfair. The whole system is built on unfairness.

What SG should be doing is transferring all these unwinnable wins over to the unloseable losses. Then everything is balanced and fair.

I am starting to sound a little ridiculous here. I need to switch to a different thread …

#323

Wrong and proud of it…good for you.

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#324

Not that I would necessarily say their opinion is right or wrong, but that one statement did save me from reading the rest of the post. :slight_smile:

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#325

The biggest problem is that there is no limit as to how stronger an opponent can be. As a new player I am forced to constantly fight battles against stronger opponents that I cannot win. My team is currently about 1500 points strong when opponents are at least 400-500 points above me and in this case there are no tactics that can bring me victory. It’s ridiculous to think that some kind of miracle tactic can defeat opponents that much stronger. Although I only use raids to get the daily reward for killing 40 heroes, I’m really annoyed every time I have to do this. And rerolling doesn’t give me weaker opponents. The best I hope is for someone 200-300 points stronger than me, so I can kill a hero or two before I die. Otherwise the game is enjoyable to some degree, but these forced defeats are not a way to go.

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#326

Welcome to the game (and the forum) badsector!

It’s true, getting into raiding is really tough for new players. Largely, because of limitations on heroes at your disposal and because matching is done within a cup range and not based on team power. So in the beginning you can really meet some tough walls.

There’s loads of good advice in this thread though, so have a read and see if any of it helps you :slight_smile:

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#327

I have the same problem in my alt account. About 2100 TP - 2 4* and 3 3* heroes, only Bane maxed - and opponents with 4*, 5*, 3* with enblems…2500 to 2700 TP. I always try to find an opponent with “easy” heroes, that works sometimes (a Layla with enblems or a maybe a Colen/Sonya/Wu Kong with the hope they don’t fire before they die), but I never raid teams with Kashhrek, it won’t work.

#328

Best thing to do might be to set a weaker defense that will float you down to a lower cup level. Then you should be facing more comparable opponents. It is tough in the beginning when you only have a few leveled heroes. You use those heroes in your defense and that goes a long way towards setting what level you end up raiding. Without a deep bench you don’t have the flexibility to compete at that level though. Most experienced raiders stack colours when raiding whereas newer players mostly have to use rainbow as they can’t stack.

In the beginning I didn’t raid at all, except to finish the season 1 provinces. I didn’t like it and I constantly lost. I had no bench at the time. Now, in retrospect, I should have been concentrating on 3* heroes, then 4* after creating a bench of 3*, then finally 5*. I jumped straight to 5* once I pulled a couple, which bogged me down for months. They take a looong time to level.

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