Raids are unfair, but not for the reasons you think - Raids MASTER

The idea came from the fact that they do attack, at least in my case the one with the full Mana. In every instance it is wu that is attached the minute his Mana is full

It can seem this way much of the time, but those instances where Wu gets sniped right as his mana fills are much more memorable because they hugely affect the outcome of the battle. You don’t tend to remember the times when Wu successfully charged and used his special as expected, or when the same sniper hits Richard at full health with no effect on the overall battle because Sabina was ready to heal the damage anyway. That’s just the way the human mind works: it is biased toward remembering details that greatly affect outcomes and discarding details that least affect outcomes.

But to understand the underlying processes, you need to pay attention to all the details. The best way to do this is to record a few of your raids, then watch them back a few times. Note which heroes are targeted and what their mana/health levels were. All the evidence I’ve seen so far suggests that the AI is random, but if you find any distinct patterns feel free to let the rest of us know so that we can investigate them too.

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sno evidence can be advanced because you cannot record thousands of rounds and every tiles coming up in each round and put it into a model hypotize it and show that type2 error is true… so the only way to do this is that BI manager of SG team dives into db checks it if they are tracking and if not they cant check either lol. and no other way exists. sorry but keep saying prove it to users everytime sounds really funny.

You can easily prove that starting boards are random by capturing screenshots of a sufficient number and counting tile distribution. A number of users on the forum here have done exactly that, and have all determined within reasonable certainty that the starting boards are random, regardless of whether you run a rainbow team or a color stacked team.

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Except people did log thousands of boards and it was found to be random and there are threads that give the statistics, if you search the forums you can find them.

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This conversation was interesting: It started out saying the boards weren’t random, then people started proving otherwise (though I agree with Revelate that a higher sample size would be more helpful in roundly proving that)…

Stones' colour distribution is NOT random - MASTER Board Conspiracy - #5 by Talisax

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dear NPNKY,
I really appreciate your effort to clear the issue, however, continuously repeating same thing (collect data) is really annoying.
If you can read our previous discussions:
0- i am totally happy with the game but i share my observations that devs might interested
1- i do not claim that everything is not randomized, not ever mentioned starting boards,but saying that raids might be randomized in a distorted manner since there seems to be patterns
2- screen recording and then counting is useless… this game probably has over 1mio MAU playing maybe 3 to 6 raids everyday which may yield 6mio*number of tiles coming(say 10 attacks) = 60 mio tiles generated and to be statistically correct, you need at least 388 different players around 100 full raid count not for 1user.
3- because of the huge number of tiles (add every possible war type in the game) probably sg needs to optimize random generator which awfully puts pressure on servers
4- because of 3, those modifications may cause distorted randomization(which is not naturally random anymore) and hence patterns
5- all these addresses to dev team not to you

any finally to all, if you have no background in data science or similar area please, do not comment.

good luck to you all

Trophies are absolutely and utterly pointless. Yes I just went there. They are just a measure of the player’s ego. They don’t give you bonus attack/ defense/ experience if you have more of them. You could argue better loot, but I would strongly disagree- I recently got promoted to the gold arena and for my troubles I got the staggering reward of A minor health potion. Why would I strive for better if the system doesn’t reward my efforts and gives me stuff I can easily craft? I honestly get more trophies overnight from getting attacked than from actually attacking via the broken raids system.

Also untrue. You can be the best in the world and still get screwed over by the RNG. It’s a game of luck- skill/ tactics do not play a large part in it. The easiest example I can think of is the middle character on the defensive team being yellow and the attacker getting a mix of mostly yellow tiles with green, red and blue and only a few purple one and even then at the edge of the board. No matter how much you want to shuffle the board you will attack with a weak element thus filling the mana of the enemy and you will get destroyed.

Somewhat true, but if you never attack you will never get the rewards for defeating 40 heroes. Also I rarely reroll. I consider wasting valuable resources like food for ego (trophies) to be a loss. The cup win/ loss ratio is utterly ridiculous. Oh you just won- here are 11 trophies, oh you lost to a stronger team/ bad RNG- minus 50. Can you do me a favor and look up the word “unfair” in a dictionary?

True, if you have a ton of leveled up and useful heroes. But consider that not everyone has been playing the game since release or spent hundreds of euros/ dollars on gems. And even then not everyone can grind on a mobile game for hours each day. I have a fully leveled up team of 3 stars and one 4 star and I still get destroyed when attacking. It’s not like I can just pull five 5 star heroes out of nowhere and ascend them.

This ties in with my previous point about RNG. As an example I’ve lost to teams with 100 team power lower than mine when the only tiles I can attack with are weak attacks and there were no combos. On the other hand I’ve beaten teams 300 team power more than my own- first move- boom strong attack, diamond and a x12 combo- defender’s center hero is dead, second attack- x10 combo two more defenders dead after using my specials. So yeah, I’m afraid no amount of smarts/ tactics/ skill can beat the RNG. The pattern (if there was ever any) I’ve noticed is you get 2 wins out of 6 raids if you refuse to waste food. And even if you do you’d struggle to get more than 4/ 6. And I haven’t even mentioned how the defenders’ mana magically fills up from getting attacked. If professional boxers and MMA fighters got stronger the more they got beaten there would be some pretty interesting matches on TV. And I’ve not even mentioned the broken raids system pairing me up with teams with 300+ power more than mine. Pairing based on trophies is stupid and unfair. It should be done in a range of +/- 200 team power of the attacker’s own

To summarize, IF the raids system is unfair at all, it is skewed in favor of the defender . Do NOT take advantage of it. Following the time honored “pics or didn’t happen” adage here are some screenshots.

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Morning @Oathbraker

Loot improves on average but one specific example is not representative. I hit diamond for the first time and got nothing significant, but my time in platinum has been much more rewarding than gold or below over several weeks

That first bit is true, but rarely. If you really think that skill is irrelevant then try playing an event with the auto-play on and see how a basic algorithm compares to human skill.

As I’ve said before, the game is similar to poker - you can’t choose your cards, but you can decide how to play them.

If you want another comparison of skill with a broadly level playing field, try this player challenge - can you replicate the results and defeat a province 12 level with a single 3* hero?

https://forum.smallgiantgames.com/t/new-challenge-one-man-army-women-also-welcome/35279

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This is obviously wrong. Let me take the time to explain why.

Wait, what? You already know? So why would you say that they are pointless, then? If you play the game for the intense joy of upgrading your city then I wish you the best of luck - I don’t. I do it for the fun of competition. Trophies are a measure of raiding success.

Hahahahaha! Sounds like someone has been losing a lot of raids.

Seems like maybe you don’t understand how cups work. There are plenty of explanations on the forum - you could just search for mentions of cups with “Elo”, read the threads and then you’ll understand.

Of course you can’t. But you can ascend more 3* heroes so that you have more options, and learn how to use the heroes that you already have properly. If you’re getting destroyed when attacking then you’re doing something wrong.

Yup, you’re doing something wrong. If you’re losing a majority of your raids then you might just be bad at this - attacks dominate defences.

If you don’t even like the most basic of the mechanics then I sincerely don’t understand why you play the game. There are plenty of match 3 games without mana to annoy you.

Rubbish. Read the dozens (hundreds?) of forum posts explaining how trophies work and why your suggestion is silly.

The screenshots you posted show some nice low level loot and some matches that any smart player would not take. Happily, you didn’t have to take them.

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That argument was way too open for crucifying… it’s super important to know your facts when making such strongly worded remarks… subtle high 5 @Brobb @JonahTheBard

whispers “thank you” and slinks off into the darkness

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When my level 9 farm becomes a level 10 farm…

tenor%20(20)

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Let’s look up some definitions:

unfair

not based on or behaving according to the principles of equality and justice.

equality
the state of being equal, especially in status, rights, or opportunities.

justice
just behaviour or treatment.

just
based on or behaving according to what is morally right and fair.


In order to find out if raids are unfair, we have to ask ourself the next question:

Are raids not based on or behaving according to the principles of equality and justice?

Raiding has two aspects: defending and attacking.

For both aspects the player gets to select the heroes he or she wants to use. The selection of heroes does however in almost all cases differ from other players their selection. So in this case alone unequality exists. But:

  • Different raiding leagues suitable for different level of heroes and player skills; this is a just treatment of players and is morally right and fair, since players have different motivations to play the game and different goals to achieve
  • Everyone has the possibility to reroll for a different opponent in the attacking aspect of a raid; so everyone has equal opportunities to choose an opponent they like (only in the first few days/weeks you will not have enough ham to reroll continuously)
  • Same attacking system for everyone, since you are in control of your tactical decisions; this is a just treatment of players and is morally right and fair
  • Same odds for everyone concerning summoning heroes and troops; this gives everyone equal opportunities (but how many opportunities depends on your investments)
  • Same way for everyone to level up your heroes and troops; this gives everyone equal opportunities (but how many opportunities depends on your investments)

This counters the unequality of hero-selection, because ‘‘we are all in it together’’.

Also the AI is programmed in an equal way for all defending raids and the chance on 3/4/5* heroes from training camps is the same for everyone as well. I think this is safe to assume.

Even if the starting boards, the way tiles replace other tiles etc. is not random, then it is still not random for everyone and so equal for everyone. Some might just be more lucky than others, but luck is not part of the definition of fair or unfair.

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I need my kids to learn this by heart!

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@Oathbraker

Get your stronghold and training camps leveled up so you can train better heroes. Right now you’re only at stronghold 12. At SH13 and TC13, you can train guaranteed 3* with a chance of 4*, and at SH20/TC20 you can train guaranteed 3* with a better chance of 4* and a chance of 5*. Level up some more 3* heroes so you can stack colors when attacking. Learn how your heroes special abilities can work together. Learn which colors are strong or weak against which other colors. Learn how to ghost tiles to fill your mana without filling theirs.

Those are all things you can do without spending a dime.

Most importantly, remember that skill can help you gain trophies, but the strength and synergy of your defense team is what will keep them. You aren’t going to be able to sustain higher than gold with that defense team, even if you’re able to climb into platinum when attacking. You have no healer, no buffer, no dispeller, and 3 slow, fragile heroes in the tank and flank spots.

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Explain absence
of the color of the stones,with the attack…

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Sometimes you get the colour you want, and you don’t notice.

Sometimes you don’t. Particularly if you use only a few colours of hero, because you are reducing the likelihood of getting what you want.

When you get the colour you want, you use it so the useless tiles build up.

I always use a stacked team and usually win in war, raids and events.

Watch Zero on YouTube. He almost always stacks too and deals with bad boards all the time.

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To be honest half the time I can’t understand what people on this forum are going about. What are SH/TC/tanks/ buffers/ dispellers? I’ve not encountered a single tank in this game, I thought it was a medieval fantasy. I’ll just assume it’s some kind of english jargon unknown to me and move on. As for upgrading- it takes time- the last time I upgraded the castle it took more than 48 hours. The last level will probably take a week. So while I appreciate the advice I can’t just do it overnight.

At least I got the Fat Friar recently (screenshots are a bit old) so I kind of have a healer. I’m also leveling up the african girl with the special that disperses damage to all heroes. And since I just love screenshots- here’s another one. Gotta love those tiles. Not a spot of green in the middle, but lots of reds to help your poor enemies’ with their mana deficiency.

You do realize you just proved my point about ego? Trophies don’t give you any tactical advantage whatsoever (only a distant hope of better loot). It’s just bragging rights. And it’s bragging rights about a mobile game at that.

Yes. And you know what- I couldn’t care less if I tried. I still get the rewards from killing 40 heroes. It’s a game- it’s supposed to be fun and entertaining. The moment you start getting angry for losing you need to take a step back. Some people just take games far too seriously.

Когда по всем показателям я должен выиграть у противника,я проигрываю.Имея 5* героев,я проигрываю противнику с 3*героями,из-за отсутствия камней.Это один из способов контролировать баланс,разработчиков,и этот способ незаконный…Пример:я купил телевизор,но смотрю только то,что хочет производитель телевизора

Хуже того…Заявленный урон и набор манны не соответствует…