Raid Stats: Telluria Edition TWO

Yes, but the problem is the sample is much more limited. This is likely due to

  • Heimdall has less time since his release
  • Heimdall is harder to acquire than Telluria
  • Many who later pulled Heimdall may have already pulled Telluria and outfitted her with emblems, leaving no real reason to shift to Heimdall if they got him later

Heimdall tanks are 5-17 against me. That’s 2-9 WITH Vela, 3-8 without. Tentative conclusions:

  • That’s a very high win rate - it seems impossible it’ll converge to anything other than a top tier tank number
  • Way too early to say how the addition of Vela affects him - sample size is too small and I don’t love shedding half of it to even think about that scenario
  • The sample size is too small to speak about if he’s a better tank than Telluria (which, I suspect, is what many will want to know). Keep in mind that, with Heimdall, it’s still very early in terms of making counter strategies. I mentioned this in my Telluria post - that I expect to drive a tank’s win rate down a bit just because I gain experience against them. I’m likely still pre- that stage with regards to fighting Heimdall.
  • However effective Heimdall is NOW, it’s entirely possible that more effective counter heroes (e.g., max HP reducers) will come later in Season 3, further reducing his efficacy
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I tossed off Heimdall data in my previous post, so let’s do Yunan now. He is 2-27 against me, including 0-2 with Vela. He’s just not that common a tank, given his low availability. I do think he likely improved with the addition of emblems to the gain (since he got a good and useful class for a tank).

It wasn’t clear to me from your post: if you already have Heimdall I would NOT chase just for Yunan. You already have a perfectly (much more than) serviceable green tank in that case. If you were somehow able to choose between them, I would opt for Heimdall, because

  • He’s better on titans
  • He’ll make the S3 map easier for you
  • I think he’ll be the better attacker
  • He appears to be the better tank, so far. ‘Worst’ case scenario is that you choose Heimdall and we later demonstrate he and Yunan are in the same league. In that case you still have an elite green tank and the superior hero in all other game phases. Even if I knew Yunan was better, it’s only be by a little bit, so Heimdall’s superior utility in all other game aspects would still make me opt for the latter.
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I dont have either right now, I’m currently using Zeline +14 as my war tank until something better comes along. I also have Vela +9 as flank.

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I don’t think that’s bad at all, with the major negatives probably being that they’re both full AoE (rather than one being a sniper, so you’re not as likely to generate an outright kill) and that their attack debuffs overlap when your opponent brings red. But if you have a few fast snipers surrounding them I think that’s a perfectly viable defense.

Great post, and well executed tests, thanx for interesting info.

Interesting points about optimal flanking, and im sorry to derail slightly from the highlighted zeline/vela/gm thoughts… but im interested also if the new kid in town,Clarissa is shaking the balance of yellow tanks Guin/Onatel when paired with Kunchen… a well talented Guinevere is close to impossible to remove without setting of the heavy purple backup.

Not at all a derailment! In just over a month and a half, Clarissa has a 1-12 record against me. In no instance was she flanking or winging for a Guinevere or Onatel tank, a fact which I find slightly surprising.

Let’s talk about what conclusions we might be able to draw from that:

  • While it’s too small a sample size to be certain of her win rate, she does NOT look like an elite defender. I’d guess above average territory - V Fast is V Fast, after all. I am drawing this conclusion partly on her preliminary win rate and my impression of fighting against her.

  • Another important data is the sheer number of encounters. Only 13 raids, one and a half months into her release feels low. Generally, if the Diamond arena raiders feels a hero isn’t worthy, they won’t get put into a lot of defenses.

  • Of course, this is kind of a special case, since those Paladin emblems may already have been assigned to Telluria or Heimdall, but I still think that number of appearances is low. Check out the HOTM Prevalence section from my third edition of raid stats. Looking at a stalwart defender like Kingston, we see few had him maxed, emblemed, and ready for Diamond defense in his release month (October). That is common for a HOTM - they don’t really start showing up until a month or two later. But in Kingston’s case we see his number of appearances jump up the next month (and again the next). I’m just not seeing that bump with Clarissa. If she were going to be an elite defender we’d expect to see a Kingston-like bump in her appearance rate right now, which I see little evidence of.

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Intersting post.
First of all im not native english speak. So i needed to read it 2-3 to understood what is behinde the numb and how to interpret them and still im nut sure about it.
Those are your result against telluria am i right?

If yes then interesting.
Its true that Vela is pain in the a** when you go with red stack. But we should not forget other heroes as well which are flanking telluria.

Im saying this as when you attack a team usually not telluria is the one who defeat you. The fast/very fast flank and wing.
Average/slow also can be dangerous but mostly the fast heroes as either you try to avoid telluria but you charge the flank/wings or you avoiding the flank/wings and charging telluria.
Both option is bad.
So e.g. Kageburado, magni… is also dangerous.

Also what i see since the “ballancing”.
I lost Telluria as a reliable tank. I have 11 talent on her so not that high.
Before the ballance my defense team won like the 50% of the matches. Now i won like 20% or so.
I dont have GM nor Vela. So i had to use flanks like santa and at other side neith. Or Marjana with master lepus.
No one proved to be a jolly joker.
I dont have those fancy heroes so my defense team is almost beaten all the time.
I tried again with Santa as a tank as it showed a better result like telluria but i dont have a big sample number.

So conclusion is if you have those fancy heroes like GM or Vela or rank 1. snipers like Kage and others telluria is still an excellent tank and you will a lot.
But if you dont have those ones your defense team is struggle more than before so you can easily drop out from 2400 if you are offline for half a day or more.

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Why would Clarissa flank them? She deal extra damage againat yellow not purple.

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Dont get hung up on the extra vs holy, the flankposish here is to complete the defense setup with a kunchen on the other side of a Guinevere.
You will require luck to chop down a well talented Guin before she goes off.(giving resist vs dark,heal,manatheft)
Clarissa with the elemental link and very fast speed will not only take very little damage, she will also keep a 30% (undispellable) umbrella over kunchen vs special attacks at very fast rate, and a well talented kunchen does not really need any introduction.
Its a pretty rock solid centre and you just need to fill out the wingpositions with some funny spices like a Finlay a Marjana or some other fun independant heroes… even chuck in a Guardian Chameleon for laughs… :wink:

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I have had some experience with Afrike in the tank position and it was imposible for me.
I think Afrike is very scaring.

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Correct, these are my results against Telluria when she’s holding the tank (center) position.

I think I understood most of your post and I definitely agree with you that matching tiles into Telluria and avoiding charging her teammates is often the best tactic. Like you, I think the support from her flanks and wings still matters, with Vela being an extreme example - that is, Vela is the BEST support Telluria can have. But I still think any Telluria tank is tough.

Yep, that’s why I only brought up Zeline and Gravemaker as Vela comparisons. I addressed Clarissa flanking a holy because that’s what I was asked about. But I thought that question was less about the ‘does extra damage’ aspect as about the ‘how good a complement is hero x to hero y?’

In my previous Telluria raid post I wrote:

For other strong tanks, I just don’t feel there’s an equivalent complement. Guinevere would need Ursena to do extra damage against dark instead of holy. I may take a look at Kunchen + Poseidon in the future, but I’ve done enough work on this to convince myself that Telluria + Vela is incredibly powerful and appears to be sui generis.

I added emphasis. Also, this was before the release of Clarissa, but my point would still hold and I could now re-formulate it more generally to something like, “Guinevere would need a dark hero to do extra damage against dark.”

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Now i use Santa as a tank and Telluria as a flank.
I have better results now like when i had telluria in center.

I made like 12 raid againts tellurias team in a row (i was boring). I lost all of them in a row. Im a bid mad as i got ■■■■■ tiles as well… so it was not fun at all.
But at 80% i managed to kill telluria. All of those teams had Vela and GM or Mitsuko as a flank. They could fire especially Vela more than 1 times at every fight.
So telluria was not the problem even i had really bad boards. But the flank… they killed me… sometimes the wing as well. Especially vela with her extra damage against fire.
So they had fast/very fast wings flanks. Not all of them but most of them.

This is in correlation with my defense team experience. I dont have aoe-s fast/average fire hero so i can use only Marjana as a flank but she is not a heavy damage dealer. Santa is slow i dont have lvl 30 mana troops…

Other side i can add master lepus. He is somehow aoe but he is fragile.
So i cannot realy defend telluria thats why i lost a lot (defense team).

Tbh Vela is still op if you put her next to telluria due to the red stack. That combination is OP. But you cannot prevent it.

The game will be more “broken” as we will have a lot of new heroes and SG with beta testers cannot check all the synergies. How they are working together.
I am at 2500-2600 cups and i like to defeat the teams which has more cups. So they are tough.
Especially with the board what i had.
i could never charge grazul before telluria… and she is very fast.

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The problem is there are sooo many better purple heroes out there (Ursena, Seshat, Kage, Hel, Panther, Sargasso (kidding)). Clarissa is ok. She’s above average like you said, but not like Gravemaker level or anything.

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Great stats as always @IvyTheTerrible!

My dream team for raiding (Raid stats - one team man) started to be very ineffective against Telluria, so I was trying different teams and come up with few that works very well, but I don’t keep tracks of my raids currently.

But I do track war hits - I have tracked almost 4k hits against Tell before and over 2k hits after nerfs and I can confirm she’s still the best tank (that’s why top teams are still running green tanks, no data needed for that lol). But I could notice she went down by a lot more than you are observing, but wars are different than raiding I guess. And she is obviously performing differently in different war boosters.

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Well done; this is a perfect summary of Clarissa within the context of the purple pantheon. I’d even add that Costumed Domitia deserves some consideration. We must look at heroes in this way when assessing them, in the same way that Lady Woolerton is meh on paper, but is actually a key hero because of the lack of Holy healers in general and the general lackluster nature of four star holy heroes.

The Telluria war data you mentioned - so you’re pulling in info from a ton of different alliances I assume (to get those totals)? I’d be curious to learn a bit more, if this isn’t proprietary stuff.

It’s only from two alliances in fact. But it adds up quickly because almost everyone has Tell as tank and you get up to 360 attacks per war. I am not tracking the second alliance now because it’s not that important - I have enough data for Tell and other green tanks. It would be cool to have data from other tanks too, but even our opponents are running green tanks only.

And technically it’s done by OCRing all the defense screenshots followed by OCRing war hit screenshots.

I was thinking about doing the same for raiding, but raid defenses don’t have hero names there so it’d have to be done by some image template matching which is not that easy to implement (at least for me)

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I screen shot my raids, showing the attacking team and defending team. Funnily, my phone is then able to recognize all my raids against, e.g., Vela and sorts her as a person, in the same way that it can show me all the pictures where my Mom appears. This is an iPhone, btw. Not sure if there’s anything there that could help you.

I have NOT yet looked to see if it would correctly decipher e.g., Melendor and Costumed Melendor as the same person. I doubt there’d be full accuracy here as some faces - Richard, Sartana - are pretty different when costumed.

Maybe it is luck but against Heimdal i use mainly zeline, telly, evelyn, healer and gazelle combo and it is working like a charm. No matter if Heimdy fires 2 or 3 times.

Thanks that was very well put. If there was a Hall of Fame for Characters Teli w ok old in The Top to be picked. Thanks IvyTheTerrible.

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