Raid Formations Meta Discussion about Heroes and New Synergies

I hope the Wonderland event is in March. Gonna chase after Cheshire Cat and his rearrange Skill :stuck_out_tongue:

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I agree with this dude. Double can be very powerful, but you better be bringing 2 rock solid tanks. I’m switching to double with +20 Bera and +7 Krampus and we’ll see how it goes, but I definitely wish Kram was max emblemed. If you’re bringing slow to the front in a double, you’re gonna get beat down.

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Has anyone raided against Zulag & Rueben? Or have them both maxed? The double and reverse double defense looks like it’s made for them.

Trying the Reverse formation for the first time. Have a few different options for defense I plan on trying but my first round is to try:

-----------Magni----------
–Toxica----------Sif-----
Ursena-----------Alfrike

Ursena for the yellow reflect and Sif for mana gen and reflect and Toxica for the mana regen. Magni as a fast sniper sitting up in his loft.

have had 2 attacks and currently up 9 cups lol. not sure how it will play out after a day but the first results are positive at least.

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Night 3 : Went to bed at 2608 cups, woke up to 2660. +52, 5W-2L
Night 4 : 2633, 2651, +18, 4W-3L

Defense surprisingly holding at 2600. Will go for 2650+ tonight and see

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I’m using reverse

with frigg and Odin on the wings

I feel like there’s a slight improvement over my standard setting.

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So, this may seem obvious but I backed into this and now am stuck for days and days. Don’t level Hero Academy in a tryout raid formation because then you are stuck!! Or at least I can’t figure out how to change my raid formation while my HA is levelling.

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Nice tip, thanks. Kind of like before a tournaments start and you have to select a costume and it applies universally until the tournament starts and you can then change them back and the tourney team will stay costumed.

Formations, # of columns of tiles hitting each position:

  • 1 - 1 - 3 - 1 - 1 Standard
  • 2 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 2 Reverse
  • 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 - 1 Double
  • 2 - 0 - 3 - 0 - 2 Reverse Double

Important to remember that the middle columns have many more matches than the edges. The middle column has the highest odds of a match in that column because all horizonal matches must include the middle column.
The middle three columns also have higher odds of a vertical match than the two edges (edges can only move a tile from one side to create the vertical match, in the middle three columns the match can be made from either side).

Tanks:
In the Standard formation the tank takes all three of the most active columns of tiles, this remains true for the Reverse Double.

This means that most of the new formations no longer REQUIRE the incredibly durable tank that the Standard formation demanded. This is not the same as saying durability no longer matters but it opens things up to other heroes and a wider range of synergies.

As stated above by @BraveGirl, in the Reverse you have two “tanks” on the edges, they take less damage but also charge more slowly precisely because they take fewer tiles. Therefore, the tanks in a Reverse formation will benefit most from speed. This is also why people have observed that in a Reverse formation the defenders all appear to charge at once.

#3 Position: Biggest Change Introduced by Formations:
The middle hero, traditionally the tank, now the link to the entire team in two formations, Double and Reverse Double.
Hit three defenders in this spot impact ALL FIVE defenders and Hit three attackers targeting the #3 position hit the entire defending team.

For ATTACKERS: all Target and Nearby attackers are potentially 67% stronger than before, Hel & Proteus are verging on OP, GM is insanely good, etc, etc…

For DEFENDERS the buffers that traditionally only affected three now 67% stronger. Hero choice is dictated by formation choice, or perhaps, formation choice will be dictated by hero options.

  • Double: #3 position is hit by one column of tiles. Very fast would help most and Margaret is the obvious standout hero for this position.
  • Reverse Double: Same tile hits as the tank in a Standard formation so durability matters. Aeron heals and protects all. Guin will revel in the role although the rear heroes probably won’t need to be healed the first time she fires. Heroes that landed with a flop upon release like Zulag now look very powerful. Khagan, Elena, Glenda and even Kashhrek-C looks imposing. One that I love, Sif will make all tile matches hurt for the attacker, reduce all damage by received by 50% and boost mana.

Possible Strategies for Defenders:
Much has been said that a few dispellers nullify the defender’s buffs and make the potential extra buffs from the #3 position less useful. This is true to some extent but, bear in mind, the defender now has two or three heroes charging rapidly, not just a single tank.

Overwhelming Buff Strategy: Simply put, have several powerful buffers and the attacker simply can’t keep up. EXAMPLES:

  • DOUBLE: positions #2 / 3 / 4 could be Taunter / Margaret / Ninja (Garnet or Jade)
  • REVERSE DOUBLE: #1 / 3 / 5 could be Taunter / Sif / Toxicandra (for cleanse and mana to back row)

Immunity: Simply make the defenders immune to ailments from the attacker’s Hit-3 heroes. EXAMPLES

  • DOUBLE: positions #2 / 3 / 4 could be Taunter / Aeron / Garnet
  • REVERSE DOUBLE: #1 / 3 / 5 could be Taunter / Aeron / Grazul

In the 4* world Bryhild becomes a Rock Star as she protects against buff removal, heals and buffs mana.

Complete Destruction: Front up with huge damage dealers, annihilate the attacker before they can heal. Who cares if the #3 spot is vulnerable, kill the enemy first

  • DOUBLE: #2 / 3 / 4 could be Cobalt / Jade / Onyx
  • REVERSE DOUBLE: #1 / 3 / 5 Cobalt / Onyx / Killhare

In Game Experience so Far:
Double is the formation I see most. Taunters are very effective in this formation as the other front line hero is often a devastating damage dealer. I see a lot of variety in line-up, the Ninjas as a front two are disgustingly good.

Reverse is also common and it leaves me unconvinced but team composition may still be sub-optimal here. Slow “tanks” in positions #1 & 5 in the Reverse formation don’t work well, the board must be truly awful for those heroes to charge. Have yet to see Very Fast heroes in those positions which is what I believe would work very well.

Double Reverse: Have not seen it much. Guin works very well. Flanked by Cobalt and Onyx it is demoralizing. Taunter and Healers for the stall works as well to allow back row to charge.
I feel that this formation is just waiting for Toxi to be maxed.

Less exotic heroes work very effectively in many of the formations. With at least two heroes charging fairly rapidly the range of synergies between heroes has grown and this gives some SI heroes have a new lease on life.

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Combos like Guardian Falcon and Khagan can be quite devastating on attack against the doubles if you can keep Khagan alive to hit all 5 at -54% defence :smile: Of course there’s the if… Same case with Almur and Little John or Skittles if you’re not blessed with many 5*s.
I like the variety these options bring! Haven’t experimented on defence yet but will start with reverse and see how it goes.

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Night 5 : Slept at 2628, woke up to 2538, -90, 1W-3L
Night 6 : 2645, 2607, -38, 4-3
Night 7 : 2643, 2545, -98, 2-3

So after one week of testing, it’s better than my Standard defense in that it’s holding in mid 2500 and there is more green in my Watchtower :smiley:

But I’ve finally gotten Krampus ascended so it’s time for a new Experimental lineup
Elena \ Krampus / Brynhild \ Clarissa / Khagan.

Will miss Grazul’s ailment protection, but I think 2 healers + Krampus will be too passive. Wish I had a better option than Khagan for the other wing, but my only 5* Holy attacker is Leonidas and I don’t have any other 5* snipers.

The Krampus is still not fully levelled at 4-63 but first night results were quite good
Dropped from 2610 to 2592 but with a 5-4 record

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Imo, they have shaken things up and I have been pummeled. Totally positive. A guaranteed win was getting old.

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good analysis, thanks

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Ok. After several more raids this week. I just continued to get absolutely hammered in raid attacks.

I like the new raid formations options. However, not only has my win % dropped significantly but also the amount of hero’s I kill per raid has dropped with many raids ending without a single kill.

Anybody else out there experiencing this or is it just me and run of bad luck?

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Can someone tell me how the win aganist reverse raid formations … no matter what I do even with great boards I get smashed

I’ve tried every combo … mono, 4/1, 3/2, 2/2/1 etc
I’ve tried setting my colours to be strong against tank , other times flanks , other times wing, other times combo of wing and flank
I’ve gone extra healers etc

I’m literally out of options as to how to go against reverse defence , double and double reverse I can combat somewhat

Depending on the heroes you use and opponents heroes. Some are with super heroes using reverse is the most difficult to break so far.

Try mono strong against the flanks which I usually do as a general rule as I have no idea what heroes you have and who you are facing.

I had some ideas in the other thread and Shunt’s post is good too.

The gist is that it’s more skill damage instead of tile damage, and you need to identify who the biggest opposing threat is

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The reverse one in particular gives the defense more advantage than they ever had and heroes like Frigg paired with Odin, Cobalt, Bera, and BK/Krampus are that much harder to defeat. Throw in average mana speed skills on a fast mana speed hero (Frigg) combined with the reverse defense and it’s almost impossible to win unless you get lucky and you get lucky FAST. I hope the reverse formation is canned after this global beta.

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