[Play Style] +skill roll for heroes with ONLY farmable ascension materials [Analysis, Math]- Update 4-12

Subject
[Play Style] +Skill Roll for heroes with ONLY farmable ascension materials [Analysis, Math]

==Background==

Same color, 1* heroes give the greatest +skill roll when leveling a hero.
Using same color 1* and 2* heroes to level a 4* hero will often take until 3.40 to 3.60, or higher, to get an 8/8 special skill.

==Simple Advice== ( see clarification below )
-If you are leveling a team hero using only farmable ascension materials, use ONLY same color 1* heroes to level the team hero until the team hero is 8/8 special skill. This applies to 3*, 4* and 5*.

-Use your spare 2* and 3* heroes to level a same color 8/8 special skill team hero.
-If you don’t have a same color 8/8 special skill team hero for your spare 2* and 3* heroes, use them to level an other color 8/8 special skill team hero. You will lost 16.6% of the XP, but you will have the greatest chance to get 8/8 special skill on all your team heroes.

-If you don’t have any 8/8 special skill heroes, use spare 2* and 3* heroes to level 3* team heroes. You will increase the chance of a 3* team hero without 8/8 special skill, but 4* and 5* Heroes have secondary effects ( Defense debuff, Attack buff, etc. ) and sometimes even tertiary effects ( looking at you Alberich and Ares ) that cannot be increased once they reach 4* 3.60 or 5* 2.60, while 3* 3.50 heroes can still be leveled to raise their special skill.

Edit:
Clarification: for simplicity, heroes are described as 8/8 special skill. However 3* and 4* heroes can ascend to tier 3 using only farmable ascension items. 5* heroes can ascend to tier 2 using only farmable ascension items. So a tier 1, 3* hero with 6/8 special skill is guaranteed to become a 8/8 hero. While a tier 1, 5* hero with 6/8 special skill is only guaranteed to become a 7/8 hero.

Guaranteed 8/8 heroes can be treated as already 8/8 heroes for this post.

Stars, tier, special skill guaranteed to become 8/8 using farmable ascension materials
3*, 1, 6/8
4*, 1, 6/8
5*, 1, 7/8

3*, 2, 7/8
4*, 2, 7/8

Edit 4-12
==alliance chat ==
I need to finish leveling my farms & food storage ( I want all to be level 20, with the occasional bump to mines to feed two builders ).

I am then considering raising a second train camp to 19 for extra fast training. Extra fast costs a lot of food but gives you lots of 1* heroes for raising special skills.

==Original Post==

==Complex Advice==
RNG means 3* 3.50 team heroes have a 1 in 17 chance of 3/8 special skill or never raising the special skill during leveling ( Note 1 ).

While the odds are approximately the same if you use batches of one 1* same color hero at a time or batches of ten, every time your fail a skill roll using a batch of ten 1* same color heroes you significantly increase the odds that your hero will fail all their remaining skill rolls before reaching maximum tier and maximum level with farmable ascension items.

Example:
Using batches of ten, a 5* 2.1 hero gets a maximum of 27 rolls of +20% until reaching 2.60 . After 16 rolls, if you are not 8/8, you have a 1 in 11 chance of never making 8/8. Using batches of one, the same hero gets a maximum of 270 rolls of +2%. After 16 rolls, if you are not 8/8, you have a 1 in 169 chance of never making 8/8.

You are not increasing your odds of an 8/8 special skill hero by rolling in batches of one, but you are decreasing the odds of a 3/8 special skill hero.

This does not normally matter since 5* Heroes take such a huge amount of XP to reach 4.80. But since we are only using farmable ascension materials, 5* heroes lose the most XP for skill rolls ( Tier 3 and Tier 4 ) and the most automatic special skill increases ( ascension to Tier 3 and Tier 4 ).

Note 1)

Data

Farmable Ascension items and max level
Star, Tier.Level, times leveled ( true level )
3* 3.50= 120
4* 3.60= 150
5* 2.60= 110

Raising a 5* hero from 2.1 to 2.60 takes 48,453 XP or 270 same color 1* Heroes

27x 20% using batches of 10 heroes
Number of rolls, rolls remaining, formula, Chance of not raising special skill at least once
4, 23= 0.8^ 23= 1 in 169
8, 19= 0.8^ 19= 1 in 69
12, 15= 0.8^ 15= 1 in 28
16, 11= 0.8^ 11= 1 in 11
20, 7= 0.8^ 7= 1 in 5
24, 3= 0.8^ 3= 1 in 2

270x 2% using batches of 1 heroes
Number of rolls remaining, formula, Chance of not raising special skill at least once
4, 266= 0.98^ 266= 1 in 215
8, 262= 0.98^ 262= 1 in 198
12, 258= 0.98^ 258= 1 in 183
16, 254= 0.98^ 254= 1 in 169
20, 250= 0.98^ 250= 1 in 156
24, 246= 0.98^ 246= 1 in 144

4 Likes

If you have a 5* Hero that you love their special ability ( looking at you Alliance War Obakan ), there is one trick you can pull.

Edit:
Use 1* 1.1 heroes of the same color ( 180 XP ) to level the target 5* until they are one 1* 1.1 away ( less than 180 XP ) from ascension ( tier 1 and tier 2 ). Then level them with a single 3* hero of the same color. It only gives you an additional 4% chance of the skill improving, but it does not involve ascension materials you don’t have and won’t have for a while.

Use 1* 1.1 heroes to level the target 5* until they are one 1* 1.1 away from ascension ( tier 1 and tier 2 ). Then level them with a single 3* hero of the same color.

More than that–You can use up to 10 heroes at this point; 10 1* same color for 20%, 10 2* same color for 40%, add in the 3*'s you’ve got to bump it up even higher, or whatever.

Of course, all that extra experience is wasted, and would probably be worth 5+ levels after ascension, or on a different level 1 hero, but if you are really desperate to get the special up, you can do it.

Heck, use 4 of the same hero to get 100% chance, 'tho I kinda doubt you have 4 extra Okaban’s :rofl:

I tried this, and as soon as the indicator says “Max level” it will not allow me to select any more heroes for leveling. Version 1.11.5 build 356, iOS 11.2.6

Hmmm…I thought I could last time, but I’m not sure anymore, and I’ve already ascended my test case… (I hate to waste the experience, so I haven’t actually done it intentionally and probably won’t.) If I find that I can add heroes past “Max Level” next time I’m ready to ascend, I’ll report back.

Either way I’m sure you could get at least 25% by training with the same hero if you have a spare!

You can continue feeding heroes to one who is maxed in level to improve their special, but only if they are maxed and on their final tier.
You could continue feeding heroes to a 5* with a special of 7 if they were at 4/80, but not if they were at 3/70 for example.

I can indeed overfeed when getting to to the max level for an ascension tier. Dunno why you can’t, @Gryphonknight

Once I get to Level 30, presumably either way, 'tho I did the cheap version, I cannot level feed any more; I can only ascend then.)

You can only continue to feed a hero when he/she is completely maxed.

Level your 3* hero to 30
Ascend your hero.
Level your 3* hero to 40
Ascend again.
Level your 3* hero to 50 (max ascension, max level)
Then if your special still isnt at 8/8 you can keep feeding it.

Very interesting post. I used both methods of feeding heroes with same color vs all colors and have achieved the same results. In some cases I have leveled skills faster dumping all colors vs same color with 4* heroes. Statistically, in my opinion, there isn’t enough evidence to prove either way given the randomness of the increasing skill points. I don’t think we can ever prove mathematically how the skill leveling works because it is all random.

Did the Devs only turn this on for THREE STAR heroes?

Must test FOR SCIENCE !!!

Edit: This did not work before the Spring Tournament, but now works for 3*, 4* and 5* heroes.

You cannot do it once they reach max level for that tier, but you can do it for the level before max. Interesting. Thanks @BarryWuzHere

Interesting; I just started playing a month ago, and was barely high enough level to finish the beginner version of that tournament before the time ran out on it. So I haven’t seen the “before” version, and didn’t know it was a change.

I almost consider it a bug–or at least I consider it a bug that you can do it without any warning–I really don’t want to waste my feeders this way most of the time, if ever. I’m afraid I may have done it accidentally, selecting 10 heroes on autopilot not noticing that MAX LEVEL had already been hit four clicks ago.

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