šŸ“ā€ā˜  Pirates of Corellia: Finley ā€“ Thoughts & Discussion

Using Finley vs Mitsukoā€™s special if even riskier because she reflects, not just counterattacks. Either pierce activates and his attack damages her, or pierce does not activate, and he hits himself for 115% damage and Mitsuko is unharmed. With the reposte/counter attack heros, at least if pierce doesnā€™t activate, you still do damage.

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Is she the only hero with reflect?

Ursena also has reflect (reflecting holy).

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I have to confess. I am a little disappointed (maybe a too harsh word). After weeks of using him in raids (only offence) heā€™s not OP. Heā€™s not even usable for me, when I decide to go Mono Blue.
Then Iā€™ll use Kiril - Grimm - Frida - Richard - Triton.

Yes, he is fast.
Yes, he can attack all.
Yes, there is a possibility to set the defense down from every enemy.

But no, thereā€™s not a lot of damage he made. Because all of the buffs are still working during the attack and the causing damage is lower the more enemies you attack with Finley.
And the ā€œdefense down effectā€ also holds for three turns whereas i.e. Grimms special works six turns.

So, heā€™s definitely not overpowered but yet still a good hero to have but as you can see there are a lot of other good ice heroes which I can use more than him. Maybe itā€™s because they fit better or maybe cause Iā€™m a nostalgic fan (with Kiril, Grimm and Richy on my side) but I just want to show that heā€™s not the OP guy he is made in this thread.

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I feel like youā€™re saying this so that he doesnā€™t get nerfed, because I canā€™t seem to grasp your reasoning.

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It doesnā€™t matter if heā€™ll get nerfed. As you can read itā€™s just my honest opinion about him, no fake or something else. Face him in raids and you will see that you donā€™t have to fear him that much.

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On defense, you really donā€™t have to worry too much about any one hero if your roster is deep enough.

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Its quite funny how you call out people liars yet offer no counter argument, no videos of him being OP except your own gut feeling and no statistical proof to counter (in fact he is almost non existent in top player teams unlike Kingston, I guess that makes Kingston super OP)

I tried him out on numerous raids like Ituri, in fact I tried two of them neck to neck in blue stacks and 3-2 combos and the fact you either have to carry a 4 star hero with you or pop buffs off opponents teams for him to work is counterintuitive enough for him to be well beyond balanced. I had to adjust the whole setup of heroes to get him to work optimally and even then you depend on so much RNG that I am not really sure he is worth it vs more direct heroes like I discussed in some other threads.

Is he strong once everything perfectly alings? Yes he is. Will he one shot the whole team and make you dinner while doing it,overpowered? No he is not.

The only concern is that his stats are high due to his 780 power but with the costumes coming at 790+ and assuming the season 3 will be 800+ I still dont get the whining aspect of this whole review.

A small disclaimer, I got almost every HOTM (looking at you Zeine) in my team and nearly every event hero, him being nerfed or not makes no difference as I will just switch out to (what already might be better) another blue sniper or multi hitter thus I really could not care less if they nerf him or not but what really sets me off are the ā€œopinionsā€ of people who have not tried, tested or fought enough of the hero to call him either OP or underpowered and wage a crusade based on thin air to alter the hero which in reality either poses very little threat (in fact if like you said if you have a deep bench why should you care anyway) or is balantly OP. The end result of all this whining will be a ā€œbalancedā€ game where all heroes do the same damage and have the same impact without any fun with the only difference being the color. When this happens I will simply lift the anchor and leave because there ill be no challenge left in this game and it will simply become to bland because of all the ā€œsuperā€ players who found it to hard to plan tile placement and work around heroes to win.

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When did I call @Ituri a liar?

I think the small elemental links that the latest HotM give to all heroes of the same color (regardless if you want them to or not) should not be considered buffs for Finleyā€™s skill to activate, especially when family bonuses (which are far more beneficial) are not considered buffs.

With the current meta, itā€™s not too hard to time Finleyā€™s special, especially against tanks like Ursena, Guin, Aegir and to a lesser extentent Aeron and Ares. When you attack, you generally have most the power, the board being the clear exception.

The fact that you have almost every other HotM and event hero to choose from, but you STILL CHOOSE FINLEY in your defense is very telling of how much value you believe he adds to your roster. That quote (which is in your own words) calls everything you say about him not being that great into question. If you honestly believed he was as bad as you say, you would have never given him a spot on your roster and he would not be on your defense team now regardless of whether they are planning to nerf him or not.

You want to come at me again? Next time, come correctly.

The pure statement where you are claiming Ituri is placing his review just to not get him nerfed vs him giving an honest opinion about a hero is calling him out as a liar or at best giving a misleading opinion.

If you think that elemental links, which cannot be dispelled, require a single use to stay and buff basically for a majority of the fight and are equal in some cases to emblem nods which cost 125 emblems and are deep in the talent tree, as minor simply portrays that you are going off of this on gut feeling and failing to understand how a fully stacked mono setup with elemental links which cannot be dispelled is. Yet again this is another thread discussion which I am done and over with, my opinions and debates are there for people to read.

If you think firing off Ursena or Guin is something lightly taken then yet again we have a different set of opinions. The fact that you have to take a barrage from Ursena first or a mana cut from Guin (where you might not have enough tiles to power up your heroes again) just simply feeds into what I said about needing to take a hit from the team to make him work and in a significant amount of cases taking that hit will not allow you to setup accordingly to use the buffs against the opponent. This is coming from using him in over a 100 raids no and I still do not see you posting anything concrete about this.

Yes I still use him on defense because I have no reset emblems and even if I had I have to plan for the iron and ham to move the emblems elsewhere, keeping him there is a better option now, and yet again like I said he is a good hero, not OP good like you claim but good enough to be on my defense and to use him in my raids, Alaise is a better ranger for now and I assume Neith will be even better at flank. The fact I gave him a spot on my defense is that unlike people blasting left, right and center I do actually test almost all heroes I go against because I will not give a non founded argument, I will run defense tests on anything I pull, I did the same with LOTL, BK and other heroes and I will continue doing the same as an alternative to gut reactions and unfounded biased opinions of some people.

If you believe I am coming after you then my dear you have to look a bit about some of the posts I have made before, I do not come after anyone but I will counter unfounded opinions that hurt the game in general and mislead people while trying to decide should they level a hero or shy away from ever learning how to fight one when all they read on the forums that the hero is stupidly OP. I will be the first one to raise a hand when a stupidly OP hero comes along (I am still borderline about LOTL as she seems to be really having an impact on the offense meta, the only reason she is not stupidly OP is her slow speed which makes her somewhat mediocre in defense), I have raised my concerns on the power creep in the game multiple times in different groups and I already see the amount of whines that will be generated when Snow white (eventough she has already been nerfed) and Jabberwock come out.

I would really love to go into a constructive debate with you where you factually prove me wrong, support it with data and statistics and I will admit I was wrong about Finely being just good and is in fact OP. Anything else I simply cannot accept as factual and if that is how it is, its fine, as adults we do not have to agree on everything :slightly_smiling_face:

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Oh and just to add, eventough I said the same before, yes Finley is strong against Aegir tanks, I guess that would be his niche role as he is his direct counter part, and this is the only tank I have in 90% of cases ran 2 Finelys to destroy the opposition, so I agree with you that in taking down Aegir tanks, Finely is extremely powerful but that is due to the fact that in majority of the cases Aegir is a punching bag for tiles without a direct negative effect and in fact he is the least scary tank out of the top 5 in diamond in my opinion anyway.

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Thanks @Anetho for your feedback after extensive testing , always great to hear first hand experiences, definitely has given me food for thought when I eventually get him to 3/70 and have the mats to ascend my next ice hero

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Iā€™ve recently maxed Finley and tried out on the past three wars as well as numerous raids.

Heā€™s a top hero but definitely not OP.
Iā€™ve debated between him or Alasie on my defense, so far he doesnā€™t seem to give significant upgrade over her, granted both are top heroes.

Other heroes are even better with team synergy.

Eve + Lianna/Zeline
Panther + Kage/Seshat
Zim + GM + Grazul
Jackal + Joon

Above have a nice fast combinations.

Iā€™ve tried Frida + and itā€™s off. Still very good but off compared to the above.

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I told myself I was doneā€¦ but I just think itā€™s funny that youā€™re asking folks for facts and data and statistics when you yourself arenā€™t providing that, you keep talking about how effective links areā€¦ do you have stats to back that up? Iā€™ve said numerous times they are, for the most part, junk and they donā€™t need a counter hero. Small defense buff against potentially one hero in a raidā€¦ junkā€¦ small mana after a hero fires and the raid is likely decided if the stack is firing (who cares if itā€™s an expensive emblem cost, what does that have to do with itā€¦ that emblem is effective prior to a special not after and itā€™s still not something Iā€™d suggest to most unless it was an average speed hero and they had level 17 mana troops)ā€¦ junkā€¦ Healā€¦ okay, thatā€™s nice and Iā€™ve always said thatā€¦ 5% bonus to attack and defense, not bad, but not game/battle changing by any stretchā€¦ sure, you can stack them all together and they can seem powerful, but if your mono color is firingā€¦ are they needed? No, not at all if you had any synergy with your mono team to kill teams off in the first place. A stat for youā€¦ there are 85ish 5 star heroes in the game and one coming out every single month that will have a link that Finley can counterā€¦ currently there are around 50 (not exact, give or take 5) heroes in the game that have some type of buff, if thatā€™s whole team or self or linkā€¦ thatā€™s a massive amount of heroes and it will just keep increasing.

Now to be clear, I have never stated Finley was OP myself and I donā€™t believe him to be so, what I do know is he has an ability vs links that I donā€™t agree with and donā€™t think is ideal when SG is selling heroes with links every month. However, I also donā€™t care at this point, I think heā€™ll win some raids for defense teams that no other hero would likely be able to win (but also be exploited in some matches by savy players)ā€¦ I accept that, and like I mentioned after fighting him as much as I could find him, he may even need the link counter to be an actually effective defenderā€¦ Do I have a problem with his design stillā€¦ yes, but Iā€™ve accepted that itā€™s more about the concept of him then it is about anything else. Anyway, last bit from me, promise, as I donā€™t expect a change to him and it sounds like from an offensive standpoint thatā€™s fair as heā€™s not working as well there as folks that rushed to max expected. Anyway, good day and if you reply and I donā€™t, itā€™s only cause I really do want to move on, Iā€™m not trying to be the poster boy for Finley hate haha, as I do think heā€™s a cool hero, just think they overreached with links a bit.

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I respect your change of mind on Finley and I respect your view on the buff issue, even tough I do not agree that he is countering the buffs as he does not remove them, would you call Zeline dispelling buffs also countering? Because she hits all regardless of them having buffs or not, she removes them and then also places a attack down debuff. Now compare those two and you will see what I mean, is Zeline OP? I dont think so, she does less damage but has a more dramatic impact on the teams.

But alas like you said you do not consider him OP so lets drop this.

As for the data, I have to take this opportunity to promote titanmafia website, it clearly shows hero uses and rankings and I have worked with Razor on a more balanced approach to evaluating heroes alongside Cherry and Ender on Ace reviews, and I can only say that I had the honor to work alongside those people. Apart from that the guild ware that Razor is developing is an insane tool for both tracking war data hits and your own personal achievements and if you still doubt the data integrity I am talking about you are more than welcome to head over there and see how things are going or join us in our line groups :slightly_smiling_face:

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Thatā€™s fair, he isnā€™t countering per sa, but he himself is a counter measure to common stacks because of links. As for Zeline, no, I donā€™t believe she is OP but she is a scary defender and I believe that Finley will be now as well simply because of links. Heā€™s a different animal then her, you can bring clease or attack up or whatever is needed to avoid herā€¦ itā€™s going to be increasingly more difficult to avoid Finley as stacks are being built around hotms for a lot of folks. But anyway, agreed, happy to drop it and move on.

As for the data, thatā€™s great that you are working with folks that are going above and beyond to help the community as a whole, so thanks for thatā€¦ As for meā€¦ Iā€™d need some real convincing to see links as a threat, butā€¦ as weā€™ve mentioned, itā€™s time to move forward. Take care.

Iā€™d personally try him with a fast blue sniper like Magni. Even if you only hit 1 target with Finley, the follow up blue sniper is likely going to KO that target. Which IMO thatā€™s one threat down and itā€™s better than none down.

TBH I still think people are fearing Finley for the ā€œbuff potentialā€ which is hard / risky to set upā€¦ The conditional buff spread damage seems more useful against specific targets, as @Anetho has well written above.

I think for offense, Finleyā€™s strength comes from being a fast blue defense down casterā€¦ Iā€™ve said it countless of times in this thread, but to me that translates to a 5* version of Valen worst case, and that worst case isnā€™t even bad.

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Finley was never ment to be OP after he was nerfed in beta. Rfm was refering to him being able to possibly bypass mulitple enemys with riposte because of his talent with emblems.

Do you all think SG using beta as a ploy to pump up heroes. Without knowing full history of game and beta , seems last few heroes have had big nerfs after initial release. The heroes get pumped as super op, veryone clamours for hero , gets nerf and is just good but everyone still thinks of the hero Being op until obtained.
This seems exactly what they have done with neith as well.

Woah, this is where Iā€™d disagree. Donā€™t think anyone is advocating theyā€™d all do the same damage or same things

Starcraft was beautifully balanced between three very different races and it was a hit.

Isnā€™t there a way to make the game more balanced while ensuring each hero is unique?

Not necessarily disagreeing with you on Finley but strategy is strategy, I think you can always balance a game and make it fun and playable.

Having better heroes than others doesnā€™t translate to much fun to me; youā€™re only better because you have em.

If your opponent had em too would they beat you more often than not: this is a more interesting question

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