⚖ Passive Balance Discussion: New Magic Heroes' passives

you spend 100usd and you want to beat the guy who spent 10000usd. come on, let’s be realistic

That is not what’s happening. You keep making that argument, but no one is saying that here.


and if the person who spent 100usd got the new massively powerful hero, and the person who spent 10000usd did not?

because it CAN happen.

how will you feel about that massively overpowered hero then? :slight_smile: especially if the 100usd spender is using said very powerful hero to keep beating the 10000usd spender, because that one hero is just so good?

(note: I’m not saying that’s happening today, not saying there are some heroes so powerful that they are unbeatable. I AM saying that this is why reasonable power creep and game balance are important, to avoid getting into situations where new heroes are just so massively powerful compared to older heroes)


I know some people are sensitive.
I’ll try to be delicate

from what I can tell, the larger portion are those who…make do with what they have.
Not long ago we had a small portion that have all the heroes. I wonder if there are any of these folks left? Having all the heroes never meant being lazy or unimaginative. Folks like @JekylandHyde or @genuineness would use slow heroes where they shine best, and get to experiment in depth for synergies.
But when warring against enemies that have all the same defense, then…
You are playing against meta
And if using faster heroes like C.Panther to form synergies that give higher win rates than:

Against… META…
Then are those folks wrong?
Are their beliefs codswallop?

I don’t think so.

In fact…
I think it maybe important for this conversation. Look at the speed groups in the game:

We have:

Very Slow




Very Fast

And a new speed group…


Which is what these passives represent.

Does this mean V.Slow heroes are garbage?
Of course it doesn’t.
Does competitive mean warring in the Top 10?
Never did… similarly,
Just because someone says they are disappointed with Myztero, doesn’t mean that person doesn’t know how to play. And certainly doesn’t mean that person doesn’t have valid reasons.

It simply means that some people find more success against Instant Meta Teams
with faster heroes

Being unable to read the writing on the wall with these new Instant heroes. And to see what’s coming down the pipe isn’t going to give the forum any respite from loud drums.

If a skill is instant,
Then it should NOT be so powerful…


Children are born , you want them all to be equally intelligent , of the same height and weight , of the same health , of the same forte and of the same aptitude ???
The next generation is better than the previous generation is the rule for the development of the world. Next is the competition within the same generation, What do you think if you have to fight aramis ,hathor,erlang shan, g.Hippo, jove, anne, ogima,m.d.winter, jequn… and so many other OP heroes without the heros have equal or lower power not too much much
No one is forcing you to fight the top players , if you don’t spend , you should go up against those who don’t spend , same spend low , spend a lot and spend a lot . if you REALLY want balance, do it in beta. By the time it’s released, a hero’s value has already been established and shouldn’t be changed unless it’s too absurd (new magical heroes are not OP compared to heroes released at the same time).

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I still don’t understand why you always assume that new magical heroes are too powerful and require nerfs. What difficulties do each of you face with them?? Each hero has its own power which makes them special. Like in this video . you will see the real power of stacking and that’s the specialty of Skadi

Instead can we have an extremely intelligent child but with weak bones? And one that is really strong but moves slowly. Each being attractive for gameplay in a unique way?
Why does diversity have to be over powered?

This game takes a long time to develop a legendary bench. Too long…for a rapid deterioration to accompany that process.


yes, the new magical heroes are the answer. Unlike ogima or skadi, they do a gradual stacking

You’re speaking from a place of intentional ignorance, inspired by self interest. I’ve never said that I had trouble with the new magic heroes but rather their passive needs to be redone. It’s too powerful for how easily it can be used and stacked with other heroes within the same family.

Also, you’re showing how powerful skadi is during a minion war… Show us the same screenshot in a normal raid against non-minion heroes. Magic heroes have no limitations or requirements, Skadi does.


I’m just talking about the way this game works, it’s similar to the way this life is going. No one can deny that the stacking ability of new heroes together is very strong
but :

  1. In attack you can only use it 1 time with 1 flag , do you think these heroes are so popular that everyone has some of these heroes ?? Also there are many heroes that go together stronger than the combination of magic heroes, when you are busy stacking I can already kill the enemy
  2. In defense if they are strong the top players are already using them, the obvious fact that anyone can tell with the push of a “Ranking” button
  3. Looks like I’m being personally attacked , I’m just talking about the way this game works, it’s similar to the way this life is going real life
    Oke I will not argue with you further

I think people experience life differently as well.
But,… if life is survival of the fittest, corporate takeover, and a dwindling middle class, then why would anyone want come to a game and experience the same thing? Haha, I’m having more fun in life than all the chores offered to me at empires and puzzles!!! Which was less true a few years ago.

I don’t see p2w mechanisms as a gaming evolutionary step over the balanced games of old like Warcraft.

Just because the car metaphor has to get regularly… dragged into our fantasy game discussions, shouldn’t be a requirement for strategy game development. It would be nice if one brave developer would produce something with a flat DL fee, and so thick with variety you could get lost for years. Something that harvested a player base of 100 million.
And with that… brought back some quality gaming! Something that makes all these gacha’s look silly… prehistoric.

Here… meta variety is what new portals dictate.
15-20 of the latest heroes.
That’s not evolution…
It’s boring and expensive.

They could rebuild this population!
Slow down and produce some balance.
Focus more on unique content.

Or continue squeezing…
And ■■■■ off people that have spent 3-4 years developing their legendary bench only to have all that work get continually fiddled with, in order to push new toys in new portals.


From this pro p2w statement it’s clear that not only you think that heroes shouldn’t be balanced but also that if a hero would cost enough it would be just “right” for him to be broken.

Here we go (an extreme paradoxically case).
100 copies only released across the game, 0,01% drop chance in a portal with 20k gems each summon. Would this be ok? After all, it is both rare and costly so it have to be balanced!



I can’t answer for an entire school of thought, but from my own experience:

I don’t win in a speed derby against opponents. I win by dinking-and-dunking and, wherever possible, dragging out the fight.

I’m often already facing teams which are faster and which certainly do hit-many-hard a lot better than I can; if they also get a free buff which grinds me to mana death for dragging out the fight on top of what they can already do?

I’m kinda running out of options.

I’m fairly certain that I’ve never asked for this. Just because I can accept a certain level of steady power creep is inevitable and even necessary doesn’t mean that any level of exponential power rush is somehow OK.

Spending money has - over enough money and time and averaging out of luck - always conferred an advantage those spendy (or lucky) enough to attain more recent heroes. But it certainly seems in recent months and years like the size of the gap has been ever-accelerating (much less with factors like the Big Imbalance Update, which is handing out stat upgrades for free to already-bigger heroes while requiring spending or substantial luck to attain similar stat upgrades via costumes for older heroes).

And here’s another free handout to a class of pretty arguably already-more-powerful heroes?


I have made the same observations as you.

After the Tell/Vela/Grave meta nerf, I thought that would be the end of this release-complain-nerf cycle.

This cycle has sped up and at this point, it looks intentional. Once we’ve reached this point, players either leave for good or deal with the game as it is.

The devs will continue to release OP heroes. They will continue to hide behind complaints of less equipped players to reduce the effectiveness of the heroes players have paid for. They will then release more OP heroes intentionally to drive revenue.

I don’t think any of us like the dynamic. Until everyone leaves and they stop seeing revenue growth, they will continue to operate this way.

This is the reality of the world. We’re all incentive-driven. SG is incentive-driven. Their metrics are showing that the way they’re implementing the game is helping them meet their financial interests.

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To get an idea why magic speed heroes have passives when other speed heroes do not, consider this chart (which is just for reference, I will only quote a few numbers below):

Look at the top headers for different speeds and their charge(s), namely the tiles to charge.
Magic charge 1x needs 5.6 tiles to charge by default which is more or less the same as 6 tiles considering many things that do not add to this conversation, 6 tiles to charge is equivalent to a VF speed hero with an 11 mana troop, and I think many will agree most magic speed hero’s 1x charge is a bit weaker than a VF hero’s charge (I mean skill for those last two “charge” ‘s but said charge bc it varies with charge for magic speed heroes).

Now consider that by default a 2x charge on a magic speed hero is 12.3 tiles to charge which is typically a whole 3-tile match more than a regular slow hero (unless you get lucky with two 4-tile matches and a diamond or some other such low probability match combinations) and that most magic speed hero’s skill for 2x charge (with the exception of Milena’s 2x and perhaps camilla’s however you spell her name the newest blue magic chick on a broom) are worse than a slow heroes and ofc more aptly much worse than the likely comparable very slow heroes (likely comparable bc of the increments of k-tile matches as discussed above) so as to merit a passive. Forgot to say very slow heroes charge by default in 13.5 which is within a 3-tile match of slow heroes and magic speed heroes alike. Just my $0.02 on magic passives being ok vs other different speed heroes not having them.

What we were saying above was that at least on paper, the new magic passives are a bit strong is all.

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I only have Willow for the new set of Magic Heroes and i personally dont think the stack is too much of a problem. Clerics can resist it and the stack itself can be reflected (cant tell you how many times I put Willow at -50% mana gen against certain opponents without realizing). Ultimately the game is about strategy. Its already been said that there is no perfect team. Difficult to overcome if you dont have the heroes to counter? Absolutely. Unbeatable, no. I think heroes like Hurricane or the super elemental heroes are much, much harder to deal with then a passive stacking hero on defense that only randomly goes off. Such a passive helps more on offense than defense.

But I’m just one of the people that uses what the game gives me. If i really dont want to fight a certain team, just re-roll

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This is a generalization at best, because Cristobal, Motega and Agrafena all have very devastating 2nd charge abilities that can be hard to recover from. Milena’s is just outright damage, which is devasting because other’s around her deal just as much, if not more, but that’s only recently comparatively. Motega’s 2nd charge is nearly impossible to get over if you don’t have a healer alive, and if Agrafena fires her 2nd charge and an AoE hitter is about to fire right after, it’s most likely game over because that rage is no joke. Cristobal is a little trickier, but I find I am able fire his second charge more and more often due to overheal. Combined with Frigg and a pretty strong attack stack, that 500% damage to all above 50% hp is no joke and 80% more damage than Milena. The new Magic heroes though, they are a different breed and we are already seeing Camilla in top defenses on the leaderboard. If the passive wasn’t a 100% guarantee to all enemies, I wonder if she’d be there at all?


So your point is that if a hero is at “some” (she is not even close to being that unanimity) top defense teams she must be nerfed? How will we end this as we will always have some heroes being on Top defense teams…

She is of course a strong hero, but even with this passive she is far from being OP to beat…


I didn’t say that Camilla needed to be nerfed. I said the passive does. She isn’t that great, but the passive that works 100% of the time to do something incurable and permanent is a problem. I don’t know this for a fact, I am just assuming, but why is it that Camilla of all ice heroes has made her way onto top leaderboard defenses? What is it about her, exactly, that makes her shine there?

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Her passive is part of her card, if you nerf her passive you are nerfing her…

What if those magic heroes were designed to be fewer powerful itself to have their passive balance them? You are saying that her special is “OK” but what makes her a decent hero is her passive, so let it be!