(Original Subject Restored.) Something about whining about people who whine about whiners


#1

We’ll start with:
If you whine about this post then you are in fact expressing that you don’t like someone whining about whiners, so you then obviously agree.

And in good conscience, this post is in itself whining about whiners so it really is whining about itself.

(Now that we’ve lost all the programmers in the recursive loop with no exit condition, we can press on. (Stack Overflow…).

It goes something like this:
People will post an opinion. You may not agree. To post that such is ‘whining’ is really in itself a whine. So surely if you don’t like to read whining, you really shouldn’t in good conscience, whine about the fact that someone is whining?

Really just address the post.

  • Is it factually correct? If not, you can correct the perception.
  • Is the opinion oft expressed? If so you can point the poster to other similar posts.
  • Is the opinion fair? If not you can point out why not.
  • Do you not like the opinion? You’re entitled to give your own counter opinion.
  • Does it need to be personal? No.

End of whine.

(Now wasn’t this just a total waste of everyone’s time?)

:smiling_imp:


#2

you’re opinion in wrong because i don’t like it!
/end sarcasm

sorry, carry on.


#3

Good post! Interesting observation!

Maybe you can help me answer a few question that popped up. I mostly try to answer open questions and posts with your checkbox-questions in mind, but sometimes I’m faced with these questions

  • What if the post contains no facts?
  • Shouldnt the responsability of browsing the forum for similar posts be the responsability of the poster?
  • What if no opinions are presented in the post?
  • Is it personal to offer up an observation and a possible solution to a problem?

It seems a shame to let these posts go unchecked, since general negativity tends to breed more negativity, which franky takes away from the benefits of this community.

Another solution would be to create the equivilent of a “scream into pillow”-part of the forum. I think someone, dont remember who, suggested this in another post.


#4

That was me.

I remember when I could come here and there was actual discussion about game strategy, hero teams, positive ideas. It’s descending into a clutter of whining about loot by a few spamming dozens of threads with the same complaints.


#5

What if the post contains no facts?
You’re obviously entitled to point this out (without whining about it, of course) :wink:
You’d ask for some facts or evidence to support the opinion. This puts the onus back on the poster and moves the discussion forward.

Shouldnt the responsability [sic] of browsing the forum for similar posts be the responsability [sic] of the poster?
Yes. You can point out that the opinion is oft shared and encourage the person to look. If you feel you have the time to spend (depending on your personal opinion of the poster or the post) you can seek an example to link to them, but of course you don’t have to.

What if no opinions are presented in the post?
Then it’s only a question of whether it’s factually correct. If it is, then there’s no basis to whine about the post. If it’s not, see my original point #2. :slight_smile:

Is it personal to offer up an observation and a possible solution to a problem?
No. (But of course you know that)
“You’re a whiner. Now here’s a solution to your problem…” Is personal. “Here’s a solution to your problem…” is not. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Some people just like to whine. But also consider that some ‘whining’ does in fact point to fundamental issues (or at least differences in opinion) about some aspects of the game.


#6

My head hurts but you are absolutely right.

Now we can all agree that Beyoncé is really hot.


#7

I think it’ll suffice to say “ok” to all of this.


#8

One post complaining from a given user isn’t a problem. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and can even express it within reason: you are absolutely correct on this point.

Many such expressions by individual users serve no useful point and aren’t warranted… and also detract from the forum experience: see prior statement of trolling. Whether that is the intention or not, as you suggested is hard to say; however, it does suggest a need for a heavier-handed moderation stance.

The game has expanded it’s player base (something like 1 million players now) and while probably the same ratio of players out of the total find this forum and contribute it, we are still going to get the typical distribution of people across the intellectual bell-curve.

More fundamentally, the respect issue goes both ways: simply calling out everyone who complained and completely whitewashing the actions of the individuals who caused it is ethically wrong. I would even lump you in with the “complainers” based on your posts over time; however, you don’t make posts that are devoid of content and as such you have avoided similar reactions from the user base.

I’ll agree the thread this was born from wasn’t handled well, and I have a non-trivial amount of fault in that; however, both sides of this should be recognized as an issue.


#9

Haha! I love it! Would this copy-paste, non personal, constructive response fit those criterias? :slight_smile:

Your post contains no facts.
Have you browsed the forum for similar threads devoid of content?
Is your intent only to blow off some steam? Or do you have an opinion?
I suggest you take a walk, or perhaps do something more meaningful with your life? Like, maybe quitting?


#10

There, I fixed it for you, removing the antagonism. :slight_smile:


#11

Haha, antagonism!

I’ve taken this verbal gymnastic to the end of my road. It was fun :slight_smile:


#12

‘Whining about whiners’ is not rife enough on this forum to justify this thread imo. It’s not often at all that one persons opinions can drive a number of other users to the point of having to tell them to just shut up.

Constructive criticism gets treated as such, sometimes things get heated but we still see constructive arguments from both sides, and everyone is friends again in the next thread. I’ve vented on here in the past, and had rational conversations with other members, including Fledoble (seems like one of the nicest users here, so for him to speak out says enough really), that have made me feel better about my frustrations.

Sometimes people just come here for a rant. They get the canned responses mentioned above (fact checks, data tracking, searching the forums for repetition of the same issues etc), and either accept they’re wrong, or apologise for venting but stand by their opinion, which is fine too but they at least acknowledge that they are just being negative and calm it down. Some of the lucky ones get put in their place spectacularly by Brobb, too.

But what if one person spends months slating nearly every aspect of the game, the developers, and snidely poking fun at other players, but instead of just playing another game that they DO like, as any sane person should do, they make it the problem of other users who enjoy this game? What if they refute any attempt at a counter point with little more than “lmao no you’re wrong” and carry on slating? What if you do tell them to search the forums for necro-threads of the same subject, but it turns out those threads are ones posted by the same person several times before?

Eventually that person needs telling to shut up.

For what it’s worth, that thread was the second time I’ve ever seen anyone on here needing to be told to stop, it’s hardly a pandemic. Nor would I consider “stop whining so much” a particularly personal attack, but whatever. Obviously only one side can be in the wrong here.


#13

Haha, I feel compelled to point out that I have not bribed or any other way influenced Mantis to say that I’m nice! Thanks for the compliment!


#14

To be fair, I really created the thread as a form of whimsy. I liked playing with the idea of people whining about the fact that someone is whining. (@Fledoble gets it. :slight_smile: ) Felt I should follow up with the list of common sense guidelines to give it SOME sort of point though.

On the whole I agree with sentiments expressed by @MantisToboggan and @Revelate above (and appreciate @Revelate’s self effacing admission in his role in the mentioned recent thread). There does come a point where someone is taking it too far and/or won’t listen, and at some time needs to be given a reality check. It is possible, I feel, to do such without making it overly personal or causing antagonism, as the latter normally just derails the thread and/or causes a stink in what could be an otherwise interesting discussion.

While I agree it’s not rife on these forums, I do feel I have observed the ‘whining about whiners’ rearing its head quite regularly.

@Revelate I take your point… I would put myself in the ‘negative’ category about many aspects of the game… but as you say, I normally try to make it constructive. I openly and regularly criticise the economy of this game because I really do believe it could be looser to improve enjoyment without affecting balance… and my main motivation for doing so is because I actually enjoy playing the game. I want to see it improve, and become more fun.

I think there is a bit of a fine line here. I feel there is a ‘legitimate’ view about the meanness of the game economy, and I have observed a sense of frustration in addressing this point by some who have evidently bought more in to the status quo.

So I guess the more serious barb to what started as a post of whimsy is really to think twice about whether the person is really just ‘whining’ or whether they may actually have a legitimate point that they are phrasing badly. (And of course, yes, you do get some intolerable whiners).

Enjoyed reading the responses, people - thanks for the time. As a whole I find this a more friendly and less antagonistic forum than most.


#15

I’m of the view that if someone posts constructively and intelligently then I ought to treat their opinion with respect (regardless of whether I agree with it).

But if it’s the inane babbling of someone who won’t or can’t listen, then the thread had already been derailed. At that stage I vote for antagonism and pettiness until @Rook shuts down the conversation as a mercy killing, leaving us all better off.


#16

I might not want to read 4-5 posts of straight antagonism. Y’all are all adults, do you really need policing so frequently? :see_no_evil:


#17

That is a perfectly reasonable question. :wink:


#18

Oh, I definately need policing once in a while. So its good to have a “forum mother” to smack me back in check haha!


#19

This genuinely made me laugh out loud.
(Of course I can’t condone it, for @Rook’s sanity if nothing else, but enjoyed it nonetheless. :grin: )


#20

It made me grin too, but I don’t recommend it: Folks that get abuse the system eventually get warned and then banned if they keep it up. :wink: