Onatel, best hero idea

I’ll take a whack at it.

We can rewrite the equation as:

mana = p(1 – q) + p^2q(1-q) + p^3q^2(1-q) + …

Or:

mana = p(1-q) * (1 + sum{n=1…inf}(p^n * q^n))

Now, the closed form for sum{n=1…inf}(p^n * q^n) is:

sum{n=1…inf}(p^n * q^n) = pq/(1-pq)

So the overall closed form is:

mana = p(1-q) * (1 + sum{n=1…inf}(p^n * q^n))

mana = p(1-q) * (1 + pq/(1-pq))

 mana = p(1-q)/(1-pq)

So, for instance p=.5, q=.25

mana = .5 * (.75) / (.875)
mana = 0.429 of a tile

The big thing to note, though, is that the infinite series is divergent if both p and q are 1.

Edit: corrected an error in the math

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My head just exploded.

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That’s ok. I feel the same way listening to your amazing E&P songs :smile:

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This reminds me of when I was in school and always being a fool when I met a lesson like this, because I was the weakest in calculating lessons :sob:

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Just give up.

These guys are from another realm. :rofl:

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What about the Enemy Onatel?

Edit: remember, SG rounds up the mana to the integer. But I believe they do this after the total mana is calculated, not throughout the calculation

It’s 1 - friendly onatel, since there’s only one tile’s worth of energy to divvy up. So:

Enemy gain = (1-p)/(1-pq)

The calculation assumes a whole tile of mana gain at the start, so the mana rounding factor is baked in. If you want to convert to % of a bar, you need to divide by 10 since they’re both average mana (or 9 if someone has high level mana troops).

Here it is as a table, in tiles:

My Onatel Enemy Onatel My Gain Enemy Gain
0.25 0.25 0.200 0.800
0.5 0.25 0.429 0.571
0.75 0.25 0.692 0.308
1 0.25 1.000 0.000
0.25 0.5 0.143 0.857
0.5 0.5 0.333 0.667
0.75 0.5 0.600 0.400
1 0.5 1.000 0.000
0.25 0.75 0.077 0.923
0.5 0.75 0.200 0.800
0.75 0.75 0.429 0.571
1 0.75 1.000 0.000
0.25 1 0.000 1.000
0.5 1 0.000 1.000
0.75 1 0.000 1.000
1 1 Diverges Diverges
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So there is a point where one Onatel would gain mana and the other wouldn’t or neither would gain more than normal. That is so cool!

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This really helped my decision.

I have 2 Drakes @ 70 but think Onatel will get the nod. I have Joon maxed already.

Would she work as a decent defensive tank in diamond in your opinion? Right now I use Rigard, Isarnia, Lianna, Khiona, Joon all maxed. I think Khiona’s buff may work well paired with Onatel to amplify her damage.

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I will tell you that she will work. :slight_smile:

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Thank you. I have been lacking that “Tank” for about a year now.

I will get her going and get her up there asap. Just 1 more dart and mats are ready.

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Any tank that forces the opponent to color stack.

Any tank that delays the opponent from killing them.

Any tank that kills/helps kill the opponent.

I just follow the above guideline when choosing tanks but also depends on how many of those “tanks” that you have.

Meeting 1 of the criteria = good tank
Meeting 2 of the criteria = great tank
Meeting 3 of the criteria = superb tank

Kashrek for example is a great tank.
Guin and GM belongs to the superb tank category.
Onatel is borderline great/superb tank category.

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That makes a lot of sense. I will start using those guidelines.

Thank you for the tips.

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How GM delays the opponent from killing them? With elemental link?

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Got my first hotm, been playing i think almost from the game start. Now struggling because the draw was Delilah + Onatel…
I have full Vivica, 3 rank Leonidas and some 4* holy heroes…
Now the biggest question which one to level up, i will not get enough darts to level up both of them. :confused:

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GM is one of the more extreme heroes where he kills before being killed. This would be inclined to the delay of killing him since once he starts firing his special early as a tank the opponent would usually be heavily damaged or dead.

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Leader of 7DF uses Onatel as his war tank. ‘Nuff said.

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That is good enough for me.

Thank you.

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Ah, I see, so it fits criteria #3, not #2, but it is so good in that criteria, so GM actually deserves extra point in that criteria to become a superb tank.

Criteria #1 is kinda interesting for me.

What forces players to switch from rainbow attack team to color stack?

The fear that they cannot kill the tank before it fires, and when it fires, it’s kinda instant raid loss.

Usual equation for the “tankiness” of a character you can find here on forums is sum of defence and health.

I’d propose a different formula here for tankiness, that actually takes damage formula into account.

If you don’t like math, don’t read below:

So, tile damage for one tile is TD = 100 * (Attack / Defence)^1.35.

Raid defence team has defence bonus of 20%. Take it into account.

We would like to kill the tank before they fire, so we need at minimum 6-7 tiles for extra fast, 7-8 for fast etc. So the damage should be more than hero’s health.

If we make an equation, where on left side is hero’s health (H), and on the right side is the tile damage times number of tiles (N) needed to trigger the special of the hero

H < TD * N = 100 * (A/D/1.2)^1.35 * N * 2 (factor for strong color)
Solve it for A, and we get minimum attack value needed to kill the tank with strong color before they fire:

A = D * 1.2 * (H/(200 * N)) ^ 0.74

Let’s call this “passive tankiness” (PT). I’m not taking troops attack/defence/health bonus into account here, leaving it as an exercise for the reader,

So, for example, GM without mana troops has PT= 832. With troops, GM has PT=933
Guin has 697 and 753 respectively.
Onatel has 766 and 828.

So, if you want to kill GM before he fires even once, with strong color, you need to have your strong color base attack to be more than his passive tankiness (basically, to have more than 933 attack, which is impossible without color stacking).

With Guin, it is quite possible to get lucky and kill her with 10 dark tiles in a row if you have 1 dark hero with 750 base attack. If you have 2 dark heroes with 750 base attack, you can kill her with 5 dark tiles. If you have 3 color stacked heroes, you’ll need 4 dark tiles. If you have 4 color stacked heroes, you can kill her with 3 dark tiles etc.

The raw passive tankiness can be used as a rule of the thumb for color stacking. It can be further altered by taking into account how many times the tank can fire their special before it’s game over for you.

For example, if you can survive GM firing two times and still win, you can halve the PT rank. If you bring more healers, you can survive longer and maybe you don’t even need to stack colors.

For Onatel, you can probably survive her firing many times, because she actually reset her mana draining debuff after triggering back to 25%. So you can divide the PT by the number you want and then check your heroes.

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I will agree yes and a no. Tank is definitely the one most important position. However, Onatel is closer to an old school tank with an upgraded ability as compared to a destroyer class like GM. Onatel may not kill you but it delays the opponent heavily. So in raid defense, hero synergy is more important than just a super single hero. Onatel is one where she delays the opponent enough for her allies to fire and deal some annoying damage herself. She is also tanky enough to hold her ground on her own.

Most here scrutinize the individual hero as if the raid defense is a single hero defense. The team consists of 5 heroes. So it’s best to study the best combination you can find with your available roster.

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