New mana per turn calculation on defense? We investigate Vol 2

Should we maybe create a completely new thread for the testing and research?

I don’t think it’s necessary. I asked @Kerridoc earlier already to just move this thread into a different category and we should be fine. :slight_smile:

I just plugged in the numbers for slow hereos. We know that a slow hero without a mana troops and without getting hit takes 15 rounds to be fully charged.

Now again, assuming a slow hero needs 20% extra mana on defense (1200 * 1,2 = 1440) and assuming each hero gets 100 mana per turn, we end up with the observed 15 turns to be fully charged (green background).
My calculations show that with a 7% mana troop (level 5 - 10) the hero needs 14 turns to be fully charged (blue background). However, I was not able to come across a scenario to prove this calculation. So if anyone comes across a slow hero with a level 5-10 mana troop (should be 7% bonus) please record it and do not hit that hero with any tiles until fully charged. Actually, any mana troop will work… I can also alter my calculations to see whether they’re accurate.

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Gotta go back working, gonna try again later, but here I have:

Perseus with no mana troop, took 4 tiles + 8 turns exactly for him to fire up.

I had a nice count on Delilah too but I hit her with Leonidas which canceled the calculation :confused:

Thank you very much, I will analyze it later.

For future references: it would be best if the hero we’re trying to track is not hit by any tiles at all. Currently, the mana gain from a tile hit is still unknown/not proven so I would rather leave this variable out of the calculation for now. :slight_smile:

Edit: Ok, you changed the turns from 7 to 8. Now the 50 mana per tile hit seem to be correct again. :slight_smile:

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According to the calculation chart, 4 hits = 200 points + 8 turns = 800 points which means it took him 1000 to charge up, exactly like the old chart.

From my testing, A marjana with crit troops took 10 turns to charge, no tiles hitting her. A Gravemaker with a crit troop took 8 tiles to charge, no tiles hitting him.

These are awkward numbers.

Too early to “officially” confirm but it seems like our numbers were right for defense mana meta:

  • 100 mana per turn
  • 50 mana per tile hit (combos might be different?)

The new insight tho is that heroes on defense need 20% more mana than on offense to be fully charged, so on defense they need:

  • very fast = 780 (650 * 1,2)
  • fast = 960 (800 * 1,2)
  • average = 1200 (1000 * 1,2)
  • slow = 1440 (1200 * 1,2)
  • very slow = 1500 (1350 * 1,2)
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Perseus is Fast mana and should take 800 mana to charge

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Thank you very much!

That would indeed confirm once more the numbers that I just posted above.

On offense, yes. But not on defense. On defense he needs 960 mana to be charged it seems like.

Moderator’s note: I’ve moved this thread to Gameplay Help & Tactics and cleaned up the title. Let the research continue!

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The most reliable post I can locate:

Further reductions to opponent mana gain from combos made by the player.

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On this one Azlar with level 16 mana troop took 13 turns and one tile (1350 points) to fire :
3-2 raid test 2 - YouTube

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Which would fit you theory with the 9% mana boost, 1440 points x (100-9)/100 = 1310 points to fire.

Yes, that confirms my theory again.

With level 13 mana troops and after 13 turns, Azlar has gained 1417,00 mana. He needs 1440 to charge, which he got from the one tile hit (+ 50). :slight_smile:

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Here are the break points for defense heroes with and without mana troops and depending on the mana troop level. Note: this is only for heroes that did not get hit by a single tile. For every tile hit, each hero will gain 50 additional mana (if it’s not a combo it seems like?):

Very Fast

Fast

Average

Slow

Very Slow

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As some here have clear proof (Videos) that it was the same mana for offense and defense to charge a special but accourding to you it is no bug, can you tell us, by checking your logs, when this has happened?
It was never mentioned in any official patch notes

Lol. First off the only comment that comes close to venturing out of the realm of civilized is the comment implying that the 100s of players involved in these conversations couldn’t count to 8, 10 and 12 respectively at the time the calculations were made by the community (remember we didn’t have very fast and very slow until the Avalon event).

Second, I think you’re missing the core issue here which is that slow and average speed heroes are now significantly weakend on defense and no longer playable in defense lineups … Which is a major problem as it game breaks raids and war.

Hey Rilf,

can you post those videos here please? :slight_smile: It would be interesting to see and analyze them.

I’m with Pan. Undocumented changes in the game meta are pretty bad…
Heros which Need more mana are already faling behind, but with that, no one will use anything but (very)fast if they can.

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i can upload some to youtbe later.
i am checking my raid/war videos atm. i have one from january 2018 where Magni charges with 7 rounds and 2 tiles that hit him. equals 800 mana.

Let me see if i have newer ones where you can clearly see it. but later this day