New mana per turn calculation on defense? We investigate Vol 2

Adding a few calculations to show how I got the base values per turn and per tile as well as the 4% for new cycle.
Not adding how I got the 0.8 multiplier, very clunky just note that the multiplier is an approximation it could also be 0.75, I’d need more data to confirm.

80 mana per new turn, actually does not depend (or not by much) on being hit or not:
Average mana gained not hit is 81:

Average mana gained after getting hit is 77:

4% adjustment:

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It looks like this 4% is just pure visual. You can check it by starting a combat on a map stage and use small mana potions (which give 25% of mana) to your heroes and check the mana gauge. This way you can get readings of 25, 50 and 75% of mana and check if your measurements are correct.

I agree with exponential decrease of mana gains depending on combo number, but the actual base is yet to be calculated, appears to be 0.75-0.8

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I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a flat 0.8. SG seems to like their 20% - it’s already been applied in various other formulas.

@JFK Thanks a lot for your calculations! Do you want me to record some raids with specific situations / combos to test your formula? Let me know if and what helps. :slight_smile:

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I had a laugh at this because if i had said it, someone might have come along with the “stats or it didn’t happen” trump card. The thing is, I have been collectiing stats and some numbers have an uncanny way of showing up!! Time again and again!

This is a very interesting thread. But how many years will it take to SG to actually answer the community about how this game is coded. This is incredible that the players have to make observations and theories themselves. SG please show a bit more transparency !!! Why would we need to create a calculation tool to actually understand the game when it would be super easy to have the source calculation.

I did some new investigations regarding mana calculations in raids, you can see it in this topic:

In short, current theory is that every tile from combo 1 (1c1) give 66.666% of an offense tile mana. End of turn bonus is 1.30 of 1c1 bonus, so it’s around 86.666% of an offense tile mana.

As an example, an Average hero on offense charges fully with 10 tiles. Each tile then gives 10% of mana. In defense, the same hero will receive 6.66% of mana if hit with combo 1 tile, and 8.66% of mana at the end of each turn.

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Basically, I think I’ve figured everything out completely.

In defense, class bonus and costume bonus don’t work. You can completely predict mana bonus of a hero in defense based on mana troop level and active mana effects on them.

Every tile without combo gives only 2/3 of a regular tile. Combo tiles give 10% less mana for every combo level, so combo 2 gives 90% of regular tile, combo 3 gives 81% of regular tile, etc.
At the end of the turn each hero gets mana that is equal to 1.30 of a tile without a combo.

All direct mana reducers work as advertised, so they just reduce the mana by said number of percents (i.e. 20% For Guin).

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Great work!

So i shouldn’t choose 2% mana bonus talent for my tank
In the hope that he will charge faster in defence?

Yes, but class bonus works in offense, so if you’re using your tank as a support hero in offense team, class bonus is useful. Usually alternative to 2% mana bonus is +Crit, which is even more useless, so I’d still pick up 2% mana bonus.

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Every tile without combo gives only 2/3 of a regular tile. Combo tiles give 90% less mana for every combo level, so combo 2 gives 90% of regular tile, combo 3 gives 81% of regular tile, etc.

Do you mean “Combo tiles give 10% less mana for every combo level”? Which would be the same as Combo tiles give 90% mana of previous combo level.

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Exactly. I rephrased the original post, too. Probably was too sleepy when posted that :slight_smile: Thanks for the correction!

@Petri Any chance you could verify this statement?

It is basically saying that e.g. the 5% mana bonus I get from a maxed costume or the 4% mana bonus from a node 20 emblemed Vela does not have any influence (is ignored) on charging speed if this hero is part of your defense team. :thinking: Kinda doubtful, but who knows. :man_shrugging:

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@Damirius thanks for your work, can guess it took a lof recordings to figure out all this. Can you please share videos ( proof ) especially the ones verifying class mana nodes and costumes mana bonus not considered on defense?

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You can look at the screenshots in the Mana mechanics guide.
I can even post one right here:

Here you can see that Joon (which is a costume with 19 emblems) has exactly the same mana amount after 1 turn without being hit, as Vela with 19 emblems, they both have lvl 23 mana troops.

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@Damirius

Hmnnn. I checked the player’s defense from Haus der Moiren [HDM] and the only player having the same defensive setup is Wuisel05. Both Vela and Joon are supported by level 23 mana troops indeed. But there is no evidence that costumed Joon’s 19th node is the mana bonus as it may be the critical bonus. If costumed Joon’s 19th node is crit bonus, then it will explain why he has the same amount of mana gathered with Vela. But then, we don’t have evidence that the 19th node is the mana bonus. But then again, we should consider the costume mana bonus of 5% of Joon. Well spotted. It gives credence to your claim.

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Yes, it’s Wuisel05.
Here’s the video of the attack:

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@Aquaginera_7DD With all due respect, do you have something as a rebuttal to @Damirius’ proof? If confirmed by SG, it may be something on offense but the +20 node on defense, it would be useless. Unless it is considered as a bug by SG and subsequently fix it. I pray it is working as intended though in order for the majority of us to spend those 250 emblems on other heroes.

But, as you remark in your previous post, this only proves that costume bonus is not applied. Class bonus for both Vela and Joon in this case maybe is not in the discussion.

All depends on the path of that Joon, if it is the mana bonus path, then it seems to be true that, in defense, the bonuses are not taken in account.

From this, it seems that costume mana bonus does not affect passive mana generation on defense. Does the costume mana bonus also not influence the mana generation when the hero is hit with tiles?

Also, I wonder if this is the intented mechanism of costume bonus, or a bug…? It’d be great if SG was more transparent with the exact mechanism/maths

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So far I couldn’t find any differences in mana generation for Vela and Joon in that team. They were hit with the same tiles and gained equal amount of mana.

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