Netherland Laws - E&P Future in Netherlands

I hope sgg to loose money… Even if the game stops i will be more than happy to see them loosing. They are too greedy and deserve this!

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I will not go as far as saying if this game could be considered real gamble, but i guess the real question is how much this game mechanics resemble EA game mechanics.

  • Second question is if other nations as well will adopt this kind of regulation.

  • Third, how much dutch market is important for Small Giant and Zynga.

I think that where (and how much) these companies pay their taxes play a major role in that.

Here’s the issue though.

$1 means more to some than to others. It’s entirely subjective.

One mans rip-off is another mans enjoyment.

The model is the model, it’s not changed since it started. You either like it or you don’t.

Anything can be addictive if the person doing it has that personality. Healthy activities can quickly become toxic ones.

This game is what it is and my view from the start is people know the score and can decide what they want to do. Freedom of choice and no one forces anyone to spend anything.

Of course people with large wallets or big credit cards are going to get more than the person with nothing but tell me any hobby which this doesn’t apply to? You can play golf with a set of 50 years wooden clubs you found in the garage but the guy with the $3000 set of custom clubs will have a very clear advantage. Who’s to blame? Who’s at fault?

My wife does felt craft. Even in that there’s layers of cost. Better kits makes it easier and quicker but comes with large prices. Can someone felt craft for very cheap? Sure they can. Can my wife make more of it and faster? Yes she can.

Problem in this game is the “whales” are subjected to derision because they have the money to spend. I’m jealous too but I won’t drop $1000 to get a shiny ninja set of heroes.

Issue is this game gives those with no impulse controls an avenue to fall down the rabbit hole. How do you protect them from themselves? Because you kick them off the game and they just go find another one. They need actual help and this game isn’t the cause of that, it’s just another gateway for them to search for the endorphin hit of the “jackpot”.

But this debate has gone on since the game launched. The forum is littered with old threads complaining about it. The Nospend Movement has barely dented it and is just another set of people trying to force their views on someone.

I prefer to manage myself, spend in my budget and enjoy my life. If dropping £30 on some summons is a cost I’m happy to make them that’s on me, not on anyone else. Whether I feel happy or sad is on me.

That’s it really. I can’t sell anything on, it’s for my gaming enjoyment only.

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I agree. The feeling that I don’t get value for money spent has led me to decision to cut spending. However, it’s a question how many people are aware of that and wether the authorities should do something to reduce the chance of exploiting certain addictions or weaknesses. It has been done before, in many different areas - with some success, more or less.

Gambling in the UK has become more regulated and measures made to stop people destroying their lives.

But gambling in moderation is fun and I should be allowed to do it if I wish.

Unfortunately the people with the genuine addictions will find ways around it. How you protect them from themselves is a problem we will always have.

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Grindy

Until the entire freemium market place changes, especially USA and Asian, there are a lot of loopholes.

Notes

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Years ago, I suffered a shoulder injury that caused me to miss work chasing a limited time, Valentine event, 5* HotM Telluria equivalent in another mobile iOS game.

One reason I started playing Empires, it did not aggravate the not fully healing joint.

In the other mobile game, tapping quickly, for long periods of time on a piece of reconstituted rock ( glass screen ) is not recommended by most joint doctors.

This is also why I am not a huge fan of Titans ( “90 seconds of terror” ) or what I have heard about Mythic Titans.

FIN

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I’ve said this many times, born and raised and living in Vegas has its benefits. First, I’ve learned the house always wins. Don’t be a sucker. Second, at least if I go drop a 20 in a casino machine, I can sit there and get drunk for nothing more then a dollar tip per drink with a chance of winning real money. I drop 20 bucks in this game and I get dawa and get angry.

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In the end, the crux of it all and to belie and discredit the OP is simply direct from Netherlands:

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And even have to get up from the couch to grab a beer…

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The interesting thing on E&P, is that your “purchases” have no value - cannot be traded or sold - and all “your” content is owned by Zynga. It’s even worse than gambling as you pay for something that you don’t own and cannot be compensated for. It’s basically a taxable donation to Zynga.

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not really sure what anyone being from / living in the Netherlands has to do with it. Two people can live in/come from the same country and give different perspectives on the issue :upside_down_face:

and I appreciate @gnikdrazil raising this issue. at least it generated knowledge and discussion. Just because the interpretation may be wrong doesn’t mean raising the topic did not have any value. I’d rather encourage asking questions than mock people and shut down valuable, respectful discussions :roll_eyes:

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good to know @Zsj and thanks for the explanation. I have a personal stake in this, living in the Netherlands :wink:

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More importantly, as i stated in different messages I believe this is just the start. I think it is pretty safe to expect the government to take a deeper look at the issue in close future as the statement clearly says, yes it doesn’t involve trade value but the ongoing practices are pretty bad.

I also believe it is important that we raise and conduct these type of discussions so we may gave companies some advice where they can result a better overall gaming experience.

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agree. and I like how we’re talking about both the legal dimension and the ethical dimension in this thread.

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^^^Thanks for that correction of OP’s conclusion ^^^

I’m completely against gambling addiction, but it appears this thread is reporting

FAKE NEWS

According to the article, Small Giant / E&P have not been fined. The court ruling is against a different company and different game - FIFA. There is nothing supporting OP’s statement that “As of now Empires and Puzzles is completely illegal and violating Dutch laws.” https://www.vg247.com/2020/10/30/ea-10-million-euro-fine-fifa-loot-boxes-the-netherlands/

Show me a different article if that’s incorrect.

You can speculate on whether something in E&P is potentially vulnerable to a violation, but I’m willing to bet [pun intended] their lawyers have reviewed the question.

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First of all please be kind and show me where I did ever state Empires and Puzzles is fined.
I never did and what you do is just twist the reality just for the sake of trying to look like a wise guy where as what you do highlights just the opposite.

I suggest you reading a bit further and thinking prior to posting these type of messages because these only will hurt you on long run.

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I saw a story about this, they did it primarily from the perspective of the people who use those business. It was interesting they said they were thankful for them, it gave them money when no one else would.

The business said their rates have to be high because the “type” of people they are lending to have a higher rate of not paying.

SG will probably be fine, because they don’t offer you pulls at the Summons portal in exchange for actual money. In fact, I can’t think of anything this game offers you in exchange for actual money that is chance-based or determined directly by the RNG. Instead, they offer you gems*, which have numerous uses other than summons, and all those other uses are guaranteed. Moreover, at the Summons portal, you never walk away empty-handed; you may come away with a bunch of Dawas and Ulmers and Graymanes with no subjective value to you, but that doesn’t make them nothing.

Granted, if you brought this before a jury or something, they might agree that this is all just being too cute by half and the Summons setup in this game is still gambling and predatory. But then, they might not, because SG currently has a loophole. So if you want to legislate against lootboxes and microtransactions and pseudo-gambling like E&P’s Summons portals, you’re going to have to close the loophole by legislating against in-game microtransactions and/or the use of chance in assigning awards generally.

*I guess the Atlantis coins, Valhalla coins, etc. are a bit murkier, because the only use those have is summons, but I also can’t remember seeing any offers where those coins and only those coins were offered in exchange for actual money.

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I like your point of the coins/tokens as was thinking the same thang. You do buy a bundle say x amount of gems and x amount of coins/tokens.
So gems you can spend on alot of things each to there own, but tokens is on pulls iv said before tokens should have a higher chance of getting said hero’s in portals could this change I doubt it.
Also you need to buy x amount of bundles for a free pull aswell.

Lol. It was not me who said you were mistaken. It was not me that belied your opening post. It’s not because you never said you are from Netherlands that I was posting. I dont even care if you live in Mars or an alien playing this game. The fact that EA and Zynga has different game mechanics and the subject violation you are making a blanket statement that Zynga may follow suit after EA without disclosing or revealing what actually was the matter. You even made a certainty that EA will lose in their appeal. You a judge or has exceptional mastery in your laws? Are you a lawyer? Sorry. Read again, fb.

And this is decreed by the Supreme Court of @gnikdrazil. This made me chuckle.

And for that, OP is delivering from FN News:

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

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