Minor Adjustment to Hero Powers


#98

Sorry i was not referring to what our teams are worth points wise. I was hoping I didn’t make it confusing as it’s hard to type it out sometimes lol.

I’ll try a very rough example with numbers that are going to be way off but here goes.

Say each alliance has 5 players each. Alliance A has full 5* full ascended. Old team power 4200 new team power 4000.

Alliance B has all 4* fully ascended. Old Team Power 3400 New team power 3250.

While the 4200 avg in alliance A should never be paired up vs Alliance B with 3400, none the less they are 800 apart originally. With team power adjustments, they are now only 750 apart increasing odds of being matched together in war. These are extremes but does it appear it will only bring alliances closer together increasing odds of a mismatch?


#99

This shouldn’t be called minor adjustment because this issue is the main problem cuzing unfair matchmaking in AW and just reducing 30-40 power this star rated hero and 20 - 30 from that wont solve anything other than just showing lower team power after all.

if you want to make it a proper fix then each hero should be dealt by based on his level, skill level, hp, defense and attack, each point of those should give x and y point in the power of the hero

example lets say skill level give 10 points each level
Kiril 309 + 317+ 487+10 /4 = 281
Layla 336+340+574+80/4 = 332~333

logically this is how the power should show for each hero but in the game now its not

PS i just gave an example how to calculate each hero power and same apply to 4* 5 * heroes

not to mention what each skill do that would be a challenge for the dev to give x amount of power for each diff skill and based on what


#100

No it shouldn’t.

You’re just underestimating the power of slow.


#101

Hero points are pointless. Just e-peen.

4.000 points are vanity. I could field a team close to that but I rock harder with a 3750 team that has full synergy advantage going for it.

I bet this will earn SG some money yeah.


#102

Just a question, @mhalttu : Quite a number of quests in this game present recommended team strength numbers. Are you planning to adjust those as well? Because even as they are now, some of them seem a bit off.


#103

Reading through the comments, it sounds like most of you agree that we should proceed. The biggest gripe is the fact that Team Power for fully levelled Epic and Legendary heroes will be lower, even though it is just visual and does not affect their true effectiveness.

There have been some good suggestions on how to work around this, but many of them require quite a bit more effort - time that could, and in my opinion should, be spent on other things.

I am currently thinking of increasing the effect of levelling up your hero (on the Hero Power) by 5%. After this, the Hero Power of a fully levelled Legendary will drop only by about 10, and the effect on Epic heroes will be only a couple of points. This does mean that fully levelled Common and Uncommon heres will have about 10 point higher Hero Power, but I think that shouldn’t cause problems.


Hero Powers Adjusted in Version 15.1
#105

sounds good to me. thank you :hugs:


#106

That sounds like a good idea, @mhalttu


#107

YESSSS - AIFE GETTING STRONGER!

I kid.


#108

I first voted that I agreed on the change but after reading the thread and did some thinking I think there is a reverse effect of the change.

Let suppose an alliance that have a lot of player with 30x 5*, then they will have a big drop in power than matchmaking “lower” power 43 x 30 = -1290 power for war matching per member in that case
compare to another alliance that have mostly member with 30x 3* no change in their power really.

According to this situation peoples that have a lot of leveled 5* will then get closer to match “easier” alliance while the player that are mostly depending on their 3* won’t benefit from it at all. or only a few point if they got only a few 4* / 5* in their top 30.

The fix seem to work well to fix the unleveled 4* / 5* for weaker or newer player but really cause another mismatching possibility for more advance alliance that have mostly fully leveled 4* / 5*
I think that the power drop should be only on the unleveled 1/1 not at all on the fully maxed heroes.
So that would create a new power raise curce istead of A(level 1/1) to B(max level), would be A -(an amount like 43 for 5*) to B unchanged.

The change should be more about the starting power of a 4* / 5* than actually lowering it of a fix amount what ever the level of it.


#109

That’s very similar to what @mhalttu proposed he would do: lower the 1/1 base card power but steepen the rate of increase by 5%, more or less leaving the power of fully leveled heroes unchanged.


#110

I read through the thread pretty fast, so maybe I lost this thing but, will all legendary heroes (read regular, event, hotm and atlantis) be treated in the same way?
Because in my opinion non-regular heroes increased team powers do not reflect their actual greater usefulness. As an example compare Horgall and Zeline (extreme comparison, just to make a point): Zeline is clearly way better but has only 15 point more when fully ascended. This means that an alliance of spenders with many Zeline, Guinevre or Gravemaker can easily be matched with a mostly f2p alliance that features more Horgall, Thorne or Quintus and so on. I’m saying that these kind of matches can easily happen because 15 points are 7/8 levels of a partially levelled hero, so the edge given by having a lot of special heroes is easily filled by a few hours worth of levelling


#111

The skill’s effects and hero speed don’t factor at all in hero power (I think…). Only the level of the special skill does. Zeline has higher power because she has better stats. It’s only the variations in attack/defense/health that make the difference between the power of maxed 5* heroes (it’s the same for 4* etc. heroes).

This is by design, I think.


#112

It fixes the AW matchmaking because alliances with people many 3/70 5 star heroes has an OVER INFLATED team power number so if they get matched against an alliance that has mostly max 4 stars at 70, the alliance of 4 stars will be much more effective because 4 star 70 are more effective than 3/70 5 stars.

Think about each hero having a superficial rating and an actual effectiveness rating. 5 stars at 3/70 have a higher superficial rating because of bogus “team power” formula than max 4s but a lower effective rating. So when you add that up aggregate across an alliance, when one alliance has an abundance of non-max 5 stars in their top 30 of each player, it gives them a higher superficial rating (i.e. team power) which is what matching is done on.

It’s sort of like how in sports betting, people always bet a lot of money on the “public” teams like the Yankees, Dallas Cowboys, LA Lakers, and Green Bay Packers. Those teams’ odds are generally less favorable to the bettor than they should be since sports books know people will bet on them even with crappier odds than the game calls for. There’s a built-in penalty for betting on those teams because of how much action they will get.

non-max 5 star heroes are the same way - there’s a “team power” penalty (i.e. power rating is higher than it should be) on them.

here’s an example, it’s not 100% accurate but it illustrates the concept

let’s say a 4 star max 70 has matching rating of 80 but actual effectiveness of 75. Now take a 5-star 3/70 who has a matching rating of 100 but an actual effectiveness of 70. If you have Alliance A of 30 players with 30 4 star heroes as their top heroes, you have a matching rating of 30x30x80 = 72,000 and an actual effectivness rating of 30x30x75 = 67,500. Now take alliance B who has all 5 star 3/70 as their top heroes. Their matching rating is 30x30x 100 = 90,000 but an actual effectivness of 30x30x70 = 63,000. So alliance A is rated as only 80% as powerful as Alliance B in the matching (72,000/90,000 = 0.8) BUT they are actually the stronger alliance. In actuality, those alliances probably won’t get matched and Alliance B will get matched potentially against an even STRONGER alliance, depending on that alliance’s mix of non-maxed 5 stars.

Now that was a bit extreme of an example since no alliance has 30 players whose 30 heroes each are all the same like that, but it does illustrate that for non-max 5 stars, the team power metric thinks those heroes are much stronger than they actually are and alliances with those heroes get matched vs stronger alliances than they otherwise should.

The change will simply be to bring the team power (i.e. AW matching rating) down closer to the actual effectiveness rating of the hero.


#113

But honestly, the whole point of trying to rate the heroes is a moving target anyway due to various team concepts, skill complementing, etc. The real fix is to use some sort of laddering system and it will sort itself out over time. This team matching and formulas is going to be a constant mess of adjustments and a time sink.


#114

@mhalttu, i’d be more concerned about how does the war pairing be affected for non-5* teams vs 5*'s, lowering 5* top power score would cause pairing to be more against non-5*'s if I’ve understood your posts correctly. I’d put effort of war pairing, not on this, since war chests now make war an effort instead of just a joke.


#115

Except that if the underlying metric used for pairing (i.e. hero power) isn’t an accurate representation of how powerful a hero is, then there’s no real way to “adjust” that until the individual metrics used are accurate. I.e. you need to get the measuring tools correct before worrying about analysis from using the tools because the data coming from the tools is broken.


#116

Your argument is like the WoW players that got upset when they gave purple and orange gear to everyone. It’s just a number, get over it. Your need for numbers is literally causing people to quit the game, this helps fix that.


#117

@TylerDirtyn
what exactly seems to be your problem?
War victories merely serve to feed one’s vanity as well. The loot is nothing to write home about.

Oh, and people have quit the game over wars, yes. Mostly because they do not enjoy this activity.

Edit:
I have no idea how lowering the team power metrics of fully ascended 5* heroes could make any contribution to improving matchmaking in war.

I do, however, have a very good idea that taking a milestone away from people who have worked hard to achieve it, would not be a wise move.

Be that as it may, mhaltu’s last posting seems sensible to me.


#118

Edit- Looks like you got your way, they increased the numbers on the 2 and 3 stars to preserve your numbers, I predict matchmaking will be worse now. Thanks.