Maybe F2P is just the natural end game? (opinion piece)

Oh, I will spend some money, too. :joy:
Offers with WE flasks, loot tickets (I want my backpacks during AR and staff)… I just want to see where can I get with heros I already have. And there are more then few to level.
Just look at those poor guys, waiting bellow. Additionally, I have Malosi, Gravemaker, Clarissa at 2nd/3rd ascension lvl. My conclusion was, these heros can take me to the next lvl. If I let them do it. If I allow myslef to be creative and enjoy in that process. After some time, I can start pushing my luck for the next lvl if I want to.

Right call in leveling Dawa before those other clowns below! :ok_hand: (I am kidding, I have a maxed Dawa still too :rofl:)


I’ve been playing for about 1.75 years now. I’m one of those who probably at one point spend up to about $20/month on the game… VIP for sure, and I would find myself doing $8 worth of Atlantis deals here, $5 worth of Challenge Offers there… basically chasing 5* heroes.

I recently hit some good luck and reached some goals: in short, I got Kage and Gravemaker in May, and having leveled them up, I now have pretty solid attackers in all colors and I win most of my raids… still trying to solve the Telluria raid problem, but I win more than I used to. I have way more other purple to work on and not enough mats. I’m a little light on Yellow overall but have three key heroes that make me satisfied (Joon, Jackal, Malosi). And I’m good in Blue, Green, and Red. My raid defense just bumped to 4502 recently, so I very easily stay in diamond; in fact, I skip some revenges because they’re ridiculous (the 4700+ GTV teams in particular). But I can’t complain, because I’m a 4500 GTV myself. :wink:

At this point, I’m easing off spending. I’m going to keep running VIP, but I didn’t buy any Atlantis, Challenge, or Valhalla offers since the beginning of May, and I can see it staying that way for the foreseeable future.

I’m leveling up what I’ve got, which includes some 4* roster depth I still want to work on, and we’ll see if any “new shiny” catches my eye, but for right now… I’m good. :slight_smile:

Good gaming!

She had some emblems until recently. :joy:

I get it, strip the talents off so the enemy has at least some chance. Very chivalrous of you.

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Hah! Yeah… personal experience here… I can’t speak for all wealthy people? Because obviously some of them are very generous… but I used to work for a guy who lived in a mansion by the beach and drove German luxury cars. He was paying me about $5 an hour, and after a couple of years, I asked if I could have a raise.

“Ummm… what kind of raise are we talking about?” he asked.

I went in strong. “How about an additional dollar an hour?”

He looked at me as though I had just asked him for a kidney.

“How about 25 cents instead?”

“25 cents? C’mon man, I’ve been working for you for years. I’ve seen you drop ten grand on a sports bet. I’ve seen you drop $500 in a strip club in one night. Which, by the way, you never told your wife about, and neither have I…”

“Okay okay okay! 50 cents an hour.”


Other situations: I’m far from rich, but I typically tip about 20% when I go to a restaurant. I’ve gone out to eat with other people who make 5x as much as I do, and they sit there and calculate…

“Hmmm… well 15% is standard, but I did have to wait a couple of minutes for that one refill… sooo I’m going to give her 12% instead.”

“12%? Dude, are you serious? You know that these people live mostly on tips.”

“Yeah, well, if she wanted a better tip, she should have brought me my refill quicker!”

“She’s obviously very busy, she’s got like 20 other tables…”

“Hah! Hey listen kid, when you’re as successful as I am, then you can tell me what to do with my money. One of the reasons I make more than you is because I value my money, and only reward hard work. If you want to go ahead and tip her 20%, just because you think she’s cute or something… which by the way, she’s not even that cute… then go right ahead. But I didn’t get to where I’m at by just giving my money away to people who don’t try. And you shouldn’t either. Maybe that’s part of the reason why you’re poor in the first place. You need to be smarter with your money.”


I wish I could say those were wildly exaggerated versions of real life experiences. Unfortunately… I captured them pretty accurately without even having to resort to hyperbole.


Know exactly the folks you speak about :joy:. Have seen my fair share of them as well.

Made me smile. Thanks @TGW


I think I found the problem.
Honestly never understood how this is still a thing, and why would you put it on the customer to pay your employees’ wages.

Here in EU, I tend to tip around 10%, maybe more if I enjoyed the visit, but having social pressure to tip for mediocre/bad service would be beyond me.

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It’s a crazy system for a British person like myself to understand.

I visit Vegas every year and I recall early days being told that the drinks Hostesses that go around have no salary at all (not sure if that bit was true) and in fact they pay the Casino for the drinks they serve so they are entirely dependent on tips. Like 100%.

So when mates or people I’m with just take the drink and don’t tip them I go nuts at them.

Now maybe that’s just a clever story I was told to get me to tip more but it never sounded wrong given what I know of the system…it just felt wrong so I always end giving a good tip. If nothing else it makes sure they find you again :joy:

That’s just the way it works in the U.S. The employers pay their tipped employees less than minimum wage with the expectation that the customers will tip them enough to compensate.

The employees are also expected to pay taxes on their tips. I believe at one time, it was on them to “self report” how much they made in tips to the IRS (U.S. tax collection agency). Naturally? Many of them underreported how much they actually earned, in order to not have to pay as much in taxes. IRS caught onto that and now they automatically tax these employees with the assumption that every customer gave them a “standard” tip. Which means that… by undertipping, you are actually forcing your server to pay taxes on money that they never received.

They do have a minimum base salary, but it’s extremely low.

The United States of America federal government requires a wage of at least $2.13 per hour be paid to employees who receive at least $30 per month in tips. If wages and tips do not equal the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour during any week, the employer is required to increase cash wages to compensate.

Tipped wage - Wikipedia


We should note for our worldwide friends that every state can also set their own minimum wages, as long as it’s not lower than the federal minimum, and many states do. In my state minimum wage is 11.25 and covers all workers, and it’s going up next month to 12 I think.

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This is true, even cities can set their own minimum wages. Many have been calling for a minimum of $15 an hour, which some have called “excessive”… but really, if you calculate the average person’s daily expenses… $15/hour is about the minimum level a single person needs to be at in most areas just to be able to pay most of their basic living costs.

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Yeah we’ve got that too in our one “big” city, I think it’s a dollar more.

Your state only has one big city? Dayum. And I thought my state was small.

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Come to Oregon: great microbrews, legal weed, vote by mail, rising minimum wage, and only one big city.

That’s the brochure. Print it. :wink:

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Oregon! Holy crap. I wanted to go to college there! Got a brochure from University of Oregon after taking my SATs. Got lots of brochures from several different universities across the country actually, but that one appealed to me the most.

My dad refused to pay for it. :unamused: Said “I’m not paying out-of-state tuition rates.”

Turns out that was just an excuse, as he then later refused to pay tuition for in-state universities as well… basically, he never had any intentions of paying for my schooling at all… but that’s a side rant…

I ended up moving to Ohio instead. We’ve also got some good microbrews here. Recently allowed “medicinal” (though I no longer partake in that, as it affects my available job opportunities). We can vote by mail, and our minimum wage is slowly rising (higher in some areas than it is in others).

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@Cheds it’s hard to say where the enjoyment level ends in F2P vs C2P. As an example there is so much RNG involved it’s not even funny. I’ve got a ridiculous collection of heroes (not a lot of 5*’s but some decent ones (Telluria and Ursena in the same pull was a highlight). But mostly just a real solid set of 4*’s. I do well in titan fights (7* or less for our alliance), I finish almost all of the challenges (mostly due to having two Proteus who is so clutch in PVE) and basically putter around collecting materials. But I have spent from time to time (VIP, POV, occasionally to get a good deal if offered - fine gloves for $1.99, yes please). And I’ve been luck enough to have a solid 4* 5-colour team since the beginning. Been playing just under a year now.

Now to put that into perspective, my wife picked up the game about 2 weeks after I did. Sometimes she’ll spend some money, but very little. She has a couple of decent 4*’s, no 5*’s and can’t finish many events, put in full attacks, hit titans as effectively as I can (50k vs 10k or less for her sometimes with her hero compositions), has difficulty progressing through higher ends of the maps, and can’t put together more than 3 decent hits in war and really only one against an opponent with a team above 3000.

There is a huge gap, and I get “playing to enjoy”, but if I had her luck I would have dumped this game rather quickly. It’s enjoyable to progress and finish things that require skill and effort, but she’s hit a bit of a glass ceiling and the only way for her to break through it is to spend money to get things and not keep banging her head against a wall after pulling her 10th Bane with an epic hero token or event pull. And even then because she can’t finish events with her teams, she’s not building a stockpile ascension materials to level a good hero even if she got one.

I was excited when I finally beat the last boss in S1. It felt like a great achievement and it was very challenging even with my team. She can’t even get to him because the heroes picked up in the same amount of time aren’t even strong enough to get her past the epic levels in Province 20. Considering we’re pushing through Season 3 now, someone playing for a year shouldn’t be having so much trouble trying to finish Season 1.

Playing to enjoy is all well and good, but without the “foundation” required to even make moderate gains, it’s bound to get frustrating. I finished S1, S2 (Easy and most of Hard) months ago and I’m 100% caught up in Easy and Hard S3. She still hasn’t finished season 1 because it’s too hard for the heroes she has. My biggest complaint is pulling my 7th Skittleskull, her biggest complaint is Skittleskull is her best hero.

2 week difference between us, just that I spent some money to pull better heroes and she has tried the progress for free approach. For every player that says “well I’ve been F2P for 2 years and look how awesome I am” there are a dozen players who’ve been playing for a year or more who can boast “look how awesome my collection of 3*’s is”.

Personally I think they should raise the percentages on getting Vanilla S1 5*’s to help the F2P crowd. 1) I don’t think any of them are really groundbreaking enough to unbalance the game vs the great HOTM and event Heroes. 2) it will help F2P progress through some of the most basic content, and 3) there is always a chance that a new F2P player will pull their first 5* and get the bug and spend a little money in the future to try and get more.

But based on the power creep and RNG the only players (with a few exceptions) who are truly enjoying this game as F2P are the ones who spent enough money that their collection of heroes is already solid and thusly don’t need to spend money. It’s easy to make that case when your barn is already full.

There’s tonnes of long term F2P people who have stunning rosters. There’s a thread on here somewhere of people sharing there’s. Only as I know but @JonahTheBard has a brilliant F2P roster.

My old alliance leader has a great roster too and one of my real life mates has a very respectable roster after 2 years.

The enjoyment is in the grind there I think. They like the challenge in front of them and they view the game as a puzzle to solve. Yes RNG is a harsh mistress but over time it does start to pay out. TC20 will give 5* out and you can ascend them to start to complete the game.

My pure F2P mate just recently completed S2 hard mode and using the coins he pulled Gregorian from the Atlantis portal. He had been saving his gems up for a year to do a 10 pull on the Gaurdians we just had. Got 2 Jackals and the bonus Raffaele. Last month he got Clarissa of an EHT too.

He just appreciates the long game and being super honest has Patience levels WAAAAYYY higher than I do.

But the game can be played for free if you don’t mind being the :turtle: rather than the :rabbit2:


There you go :blush:

@Cheds RNG is a cruel mistress and it might be that simple. I got lucky to get a really good set of 4*’s very early on which helped my progression. (Sabina, Wu, Boril, Colen, Little John) they helped me push through content quickly. On the other hand my wife doesn’t have a team that can get her through the full epic challenges so she’s stuck just finishing rare.

I’ve played many games over the years and I’ve always found F2P deficiencies for the most part can be overcome with skill and strategy, but this game literally comes down to the strength of your hero base which is 100% up to RNGesus or your wallet. The problem with the slow grind with this game vs others is that with many others you can still be good at one vein even if you can’t do another. But if you have a ■■■■ collection of heroes in this game you’re basically useless in every aspect of the game (PVE, PVP, titans, challenges, etc).

But if I would make a suggestion to anyone, Proteus is a god in PVE and is the sole reason I’m as strong as I am. He flat out wins unwinnable fights for me. Proteus, some super mana potions will walk through almost any hard level bosses and makes legendary challenges a cake walk.

The only PVE content I haven’t finished are some of the hard “special levels” in S2. Have actually finished the final battle on Hard, skipper ahead because I could. I’m slowly grinding them out, but when AR event comes around I find grinding for materials is a better use of my energy and time as I’m usually quite deficient in materials from all the challenge events in between.


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