Maybe F2P is just the natural end game? (opinion piece)

General Discussion
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Hey all, Cheds back with another thought provoker. It’s a ramble I did on my lunch hour but feel free to comment your thoughts.

So, I’ve been thinking a lot lately about the current “situation” we find ourselves in. I’ve commented on threads but feel the need to articulate this on one of my own.

It feels like most new threads are still complaints and you’ve got a gathering storm of long term players either contemplating quitting or getting onto a “Free to play” type bandwagon. With hashtags and everything! (the internet equivalent of angry waving of slogan boards :laughing:…but I digress).

Now correct me if I’m wrong but it seems that a lot of these players are from the C2P side of the camp…that’s anecdotal btw, I don’t have proof…it just feels like that from the posts.

But, and hear me out, the long term players I know are all F2P anyway.

There are 3 players in my alliance who have played longer than 2 years (one from the very start…) and have bar the odd Alliance gem share (out of gratitude) spent nothing in that time.

I asked them why they play and what their expectations are and they are just happily playing the game. Logging in daily, hitting titans, playing in wars. Just basically playing the game. They have teams good enough to do this how they like and generally they seem pretty content. They don’t use the features they don’t like (alchemist hut mainly) but of course like new stuff as and when delivered. One particularly liked Tavern of Legends for the planning involved (even though the challenge wasn’t that great in the end). His expectation is they will dial it up now and the bosses mana will get faster so more challenge but same same core idea, so he’s happy. Crucially they didn’t chase the summons, they just played the feature (gasp :scream:) and liked it. Not chasing the summons seems to be the biggest divider on ToL. Those that chased are very disgruntled, those that didn’t liked it.

Now since they have slowly ground their way to now they have a sense of pride that I just don’t see the C2P members in my alliance. They understand the patience needed and they let the game flow at the pace it flows at. Like riding an inflatable ring down a lazy river, they aren’t trying to turn it into a white water rafting experience. It’s like the Village elders telling the kids that good things will come in time…and the kids ignoring them and getting credit cards to speed it up :joy:

But for those of us who have turned the game into the said white water experience…well we get there faster but then what? People paid a lot for that ride and now it’s over quickly (in the context of this game :joy:) and you are left playing the same game everyone else is but you’ve nothing to do now but the Titans and the Wars. You want more. It’s not your fault the F2P people aren’t catching up as quickly, that’s their fault not yours right??

So here’s my final thoughts (Jerry Springer stylee)

Maybe going F2P is just the inevitable end result in this game for most of us? Once you have everything and there’s nothing to buy what are people still summoning for?? You don’t “need” any new heroes. I have 20 5* sat unlevelled for Petes sake…it will be years before all my stuff is done. But I wantssss the precccioussses…not needddss them.

But seriously, maybe now it’s time to just play the game with what we have. If that isn’t scratching those itches anymore then playing for free for a bit takes the financial stress away at least and if it’s still not working then take a break, find a new challenge because you won this one. Well done, you beat the game, you completed it and kudos for that.

I just hope people don’t have any regrets from whatever path they’ve taken in doing that.

But if you remove the stress you might start to enjoy the lazy river for what it is…enjoy the scenery and chill out a bit :slight_smile:

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This is pretty much where I’m at mentality-wise after 1.5 years having never spent a cent.

Honestly I feel like this game would be much more enjoyable in general with this kind of mindset from the very beginning. As far as gacha games go, E&P is incredibly generous with opportunities to reach high milestones - so instead of chasing an ever-increasing number of shiny carrots on a stick, it’s more fun to bond with what you actually have.

As far as endgame goes, it’s either this; spending 1000s each month; or quitting in frustration.

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F2P is definitely the best way to enjoy the game. When you put nothing in, you don’t get disappointed when you get nothing out.

Now, I know I don’t need all the best heroes… and I know I couldn’t finish them all even if I had them… but the ‘collector’ in me still wants to get a new shiny toy every now and then. Doesn’t have to be all of them, that would be overwhelming. But it would be nice to know that there is a clear path to be able to grind towards getting new heroes without spending a fortune.

“But TGW… there is a way. Just save up your gems and coins and tokens and such, you’ll get them eventually!”

Yeah, maybe…? No guarantee on that though, is there… nothing’s ever promised in RNG.

So, yes… the best way to enjoy the game is to stop worrying about it. That’s the only reason I’m still playing.

Just wondering how exactly that fits in with their business model. If the majority of us realize that we’re better off just floating down a lazy river, not spending, just accepting whatever we get for free… how long before SG gets mad and says,

“Alright, that’s enough freeloading! We’re losing too much revenue. New rule! Everybody has to pay $20 a month to ride the lazy river!”

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Great point of view. Zen and the Art of F2P. :sunglasses:

—
But I doubt this was intentionally designed by a for profit business like SGG.

I think you have pegged the right way to approach the game.

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I think the business model doesn’t necessarily include the long beards still playing :joy:

I think it’s there to speed you up to that point but once you have everything what’s left to buy??

The long term players are now in the E&P retirement home so to speak…

It’s the new kids who are spending to catch us up after all. I have a pretty decent defence and I know that draws envy from the newer players. And I know they get out the CC to chase me.

That’s the profit model in the game I think…we end up being the dangling carrots for new players. I just don’t think the Elders of the game have more milk to give.

And provided we simmer down and stop scaring off the fresh blood I don’t think that’s a problem to SGG :joy:

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Well, define elder. I’m 21 months in. I have every S1 3* and 4*, a few 5s; a few S2 3s and 4s, a few HotMs, a few event heroes… out of all of those, still got a dozen or so who aren’t finished yet… and a long list of other heroes I still want.

Obviously I’ve been playing at a slower rate than some, but I think that’s fairly common in the majority of the game’s overall population. Lots of us casuals out there in the real world. The forum has an abnormally large proportion of players in diamond tier, top 100 alliances, etc., compared to the million+ people who actually play the game. I think your average E&P player is more like

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I know there are F2Ps here who have amazing rosters… but for every “longtime” F2P player who has 30+ maxed 5* heroes? There are probably at least a dozen or so who still don’t.

Of those, I’m sure there are a number who wish they had better stuff… and maybe they dabbled in spending a little bit, only to get mostly 3* heroes, and quickly decided “nope, no thanks.” Then there are a bunch who just don’t care at all. Maybe there are some who have a good 5* hero and they’ve been waiting for months to get the items they need to finish it, and they’ve already decided “dis game too damn slow, I’m not even going to worry about it anymore.”

As for the fresh blood? I’m not trying to scare them. I’m just trying to prevent them from making a financial mistake that they’ll likely regret later. People make better decisions when they understand exactly what they’re buying ahead of time. Conversely… uninformed people who buy things only to later on figure out that they’ve been ripped off… tend to come back to the forum and cause a scene. I just don’t want the newbies to come in here with ridiculously high expectations that they’re going to pull every single HotM for $20 each, or some other such nonsense like that.

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I think this makes sense. Long-term players will all reach a point where their roster becomes fairly static no matter their spending habits. At that point unless the hero on offer gives a significant improvement there is no incentive to spend anymore. And of course F2P don’t have that incentive to spend period.

However, I do find it funny to refer to former spenders as F2P. They still have a massively superior roster that any full-time F2P player can only dream of.

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If you mean former heavy spenders? Yes, I agree.

I’ve spent less than $10 a month overall.

Trust me, my roster is not nearly as impressive as you’d think it might be. :laughing:

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Well said @Cheds and I agree in spite of our bitter strawberry ice cream feud.

I have been playing 3 years and have been F2P the whole time. I have just come to the boards in the past month or two. I noticed what as @TGW said that there is an absurd amount of high diamond and top alliance players here that very much skews the general view of the board.

My personal pet peeve is how all but like 15 heroes are hot garbage because they don’t consistently perform in super high diamond attack raids. If that is the E&P world you’re in it sounds bland and boring truthfully. It annoys me though because if I were new and looking for advice on a hero and the comments in every thread about them are “they suck, feed them”, etc. I would have been really discouraged instead of excited.

Before I go too far off on a tangent, having been F2P the whole time and realizing early enough, and being okay with it, that I am never going to have all those heroes, but I have a great time playing and still do. My goal was to entertain myself and have fun and I do that, even with all “garbage” heroes.

It took me two years to get my first 5* and until this past month I never got a HotM. I am up to I think 3 event 5* heroes, no 5’s (finally got Jackal yesterday!). That doesn’t stop me from finding competitive teams to raid and play against. I hang in low diamond/very high platinum. I get the perks of higher tier loot boxes but the benefit of using, and fighting, a lot of variety of heroes. I have a deep 4* bench and can only think of less than a handful I actually dislike using. That is mostly due to when I got them or how they fit my play style. The variety keeps it fun.

Also, given the low volume of special event heroes I have it keeps me excited to play for those pulls and keeps things interesting, even after 3 years. Maybe I could get a 4* or 5* this time, or better yet a 5* in 3* clothes named Dawa. Can’t go wrong there!

I have stepped back to a more casual model due to real life commitments and am no longer in an alliance, but the game is still very fun for me. While I think F2P amplified these points, paying players can have this too, the biggest issue with game unhappiness in a lot of cases is just player perspective.

Cheers! Strawberry ice cream is not the best. #lifefact. :+1:

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Yeah I get that. The previously big spenders going free to pay is like someone who ate steak everyday converting to Veganism and then telling other Vegans how vegan they are…

I mean sure, you are now but you ate plenty of cow before right??

So yes it’s easy to go F2P when you have a shiny roster and it definitely annoys true F2P when they hear it.

“Oh you are playing for free…I’m sure it’s tough with your Gravemaker, Telluria and Vela combi at 20 emblems each with lvl 23 troops :roll_eyes::roll_eyes::roll_eyes:”

I’m mean at the moment it’s a protest thing but my thoughts were more along the line of maybe that’s just how this ends anyway??? Maybe that’s just the natural progression for the whales and C2Players.

I mean I dropped cash on this…more than I ever planned and I’m looking at it now going…what do I need?? Nothing. But I enjoy the game and will keep VIP going at the very least as my monthly subscription to them.

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@Muchacho exactly right…one of my first posts on here was when I finally got my TC20 going and amazingly my first 2 pulls were Thorne and Leonidas and I came onto the forum for thoughts and both were trashed in the threads I was reading. I mean I was super stoked and BOOM…deflated.

So I levelled them both anyway out of spite and I still use them both everyday as the 3rd hitter in blue and yellow stacks. Sadly can’t use them in defence but they earn me cups that the flashy mates help defend :joy:

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Yes, medium-to-heavy spenders. I myself have spent money in the game, although my average is below $1.50/mo (Canadian – about 0.12 US I believe :laughing: ). But I think of myself as VC2P and not F2P as a result even if I never spend again.

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Fair enough. Call me a VC2P then.

I mean, I look at my roster… I try to rack my brain to remember where I got them all…

The 5* heroes:

Obakan - He was my first 5*, so I definitely remember getting him from gems. But how many of those gems came from my VIP vs. how many did I earn on my own through gameplay? I guess I can go ahead and chalk him up to a hero I “paid” for.

Richard, Richard, Richard, Lianna, Kadilen, Elkanen, Leonidas, Marjana - these all came from TC20. No spending required.

Malosi - got him as a bonus from costume chamber keys (which I did not pay for).

Heroes of curious origin: meaning, I don’t remember exactly how I got them, whether it was through gems, coins, EHTs… Miki, Grimble, Santa Claus.

So… “best case scenario” (in ‘defense’ of spending)… I paid $140 for four 5* heroes and got 9 of them for free.

Alternative: it’s entirely possible that I paid $140 for an Obakan, and got twelve 5* heroes for free.

Or, to put it more accurately: it’s entirely possible that I’d still have nearly the exact same roster that I have today without ever having spent a dime.

Sooo… that kinda begs the question… why spend in the first place?

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I mean I spent to get 5* heroes, pure and simple. And I did…I have piles of them.

But then the game angle changed. Suddenly those 5* were nothing but ornamentation as I didn’t have the Mats to ascend them.

Oh then the irony hit me… :joy:

So then what? Well I started to spend to get the mats and I ascended a lot of the 5*

Now for clarity I have no regrets…I work in Finance so I’m fully aware of the model at work here. I just wanted to have better stuff to play the game.

I can’t say I will stop spending as we all know I have a penchant for spending my money on daft stuff (I have a shield with a Turtle shell now on CoD…£8.50 a bargain :joy:) but it’s more a case “what do I need to spend money on”. I feel like I’m at the end of that road now. The younglings can spend to catch me up, I can just relax and enjoy the lazy river for a bit

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I think in this particular case the difference between F2P, VC2P, and C2P is moot and they can all be lumped together. If you’re not spending a lot the advantage you get on minimal additional summons based on how RNG works is negligible. Perhaps like 1 epic or legendary hero over a year or two or something? I have no desire for that kind of math. Marginal spending helps more in base building, etc I think.

I think the game is most enjoyable when you’re having fun playing with what you have, which by default keeps a person in one of the 3 categories above. Perhaps an exception is made for a particular hero or event, but otherwise generally so.

It’s more a matter of how patient you are to get to a point you can be okay with what you have. Some people have a personality type that they’ll never be happy because they need to be #1, or top 1%, and they’ll likely always spend until they burn out. Otherwise it’s how much patience you have before your perception of where you’re at and what’s going on changes.

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I’ve seen people here call themselves C2P and quote £/$20 or 30 and month and I’m :open_mouth: “look at all these rich kids!” :rofl:

My budget is £5 a month and that is now spread over two games as I really can’t justify spending any more than that on the pittance I earn.

So yes, VC2P from the start and yet I recognised myself from the F2P description above. No expectation. Always excited when I get any 5* regardless if they’re ‘good’ as far as these boards are concerned (and still excited about event 4* or ones I haven’t got yet)

I certainly enjoy the collection element of the game but for me that’s just part of the appeal. I enjoy playing, and set my own personal strategies and targets within the limits of my current level and modest heroes and budget.

I’ve played a lot of games over the years (and years and years) and tend to drift away from all of them eventually. That I’m still excited about this one 10 months in says a lot about how well it has held my attention (although I know that still makes me a newbie relative to many here)

So yes, I think everyone would be happier if they were F2P or set themselves an exceptionally small budget. I’m not sure how easy that would be for someone who was used to making all these x10 draws on a regular basis though?

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It is entirely possible as a natural progression. I mean why spend big for a Raffaele if you already have Ariel? Will he make a big improvement on your team?

I also think a lot of the protest thing is more from the higher-end C2P players than the true whales as they took the plunge to get Telluria only to see her get chopped down a bit. For the true whales who are leaving I suspect the Telly thing was more of a last straw than a starting point for the protest/exodus.

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I may be wrong on this as I am not a whale, nor were any in my alliances over the years, but I think one frustration is if there a long time C2P, etc. player that can compete with them (at least with the top team or two) they get frustrated that after all the spent they don’t have a wider advantage.

I don’t mean to over generalize, I know this is not true of all. Really though once you have a team of 5*, highly talented heroes money can’t buy a difference anymore. Tiles make or break the battle now. It just got you to that point faster.

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I have been Cash to play. My spending varies month to month. I’ve chased some heroes, others I got easy but it’s just struck me that a lot of people who have gotten themselves really worked up have all the tools to play the game now. They don’t need anything.

I guess you are right that for the very top end it’s not about just playing the game, it’s about an ego boost from “being no.1” and if cash can’t buy you that feeling anymore then there’s other games where cash will do that again. There’s no mobile game out there where cash won’t do that to some degree.

Once you hit the end of 1 road there’s plenty of others and if you’ve deep pockets then why not I guess??

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Town

In my opinion, a better analogy is a small town. Some people live happy fulfilling lives in a small town. These people are good with Legendary training ( RT20 ) and will enjoy the game F2P.

Some people thrive is a big city. Balancing a plethora of choices with a finite amount of time, and resources. These players are not okay with merciless RNG denying them a crucial hero and paywalls denying them heroes their friends get through luck of money. It hurts worst when their friends get Seshat from Tavern of Legends summons and they get Thoth-Amun from Hero Academy.

Personally I am a Suburban type user. I am okay with less choice of it saves me time, and resources. I am okay not having Telluria but I want something better than Horghall .

Opportunity

But eventually I did everything available to me. With my future choices further and further restrained by how merciless RNG created unbalanced streaks for resources, ascension items and heroes, it was time for me to pack up and move out of Empires and Puzzles Country. Currently playing some Space Miner and Stardew Valley over in Games with Epilogue Country.

No Middle class?

To use another analogy, there seems to be players working minimum wage jobs in the game economy, and players working in the corporate suite in companies they purchased with real world currency, but a lack of middle class job options and no path to home ownership or even rent controlled housing.

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