[May 16] Alliance Wars Half Way Through

Finally! Sorry that took so long.

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This is probably more my fault than yours: it never occurred to me that players would not understand the value of doubling (and tripling, and quadrupling) on a Titan’s weak colour. That’s the stupidity that comes of being immersed in a forum with players who exchange views about the game all the time.

I kinda failed you there. I’d apologise for it except you’re really annoying. Thanks for explaining, though.

(:wink:)

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Heh yeah. Well… I could be wrong, and maybe this post could be a barometer for this, but I imagine there are a lot of alliances out there with no clue. I would think… if both sides don’t get it, then you should get an even matchup with Titan score…?

Ahhhh heck I don’t know. There’s so many variables to consider and I can’t wrap my head around if there could be holes there or not.

In other news - I really can’t find a good guide on how to attack titans. Where’s Dante and coppersky or Rev on that?! (A text guide anyway… i usually can’t catch videos :p)

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15 posts were split to a new topic: How to attack Titans - (Topic Split)

Same issue here. Our alliance has one player over 4,000 power. The majority have power at approximately 2,500, and we got matched up against an alliance with players greater than 3,000 power. I’ve got my strong players ready to leave the Alliance to help us with our matchups but we seriously don’t want to break up a friendly alliance.

Thanks for this @Brobb . I missed this discussion thread. I wonder if there needs to be some sort of manipulation on the data to remove outliers then. Will wait and see how next war goes but still don’t think it is right. They should in the end create a scoring system and eventually it will all sort itself out. Oh well.

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At the time of the AW preparation phase, my alliance only six days old. Being faced off with a matured alliance and comparing titan scores, we wouldn’t even be much of a blip on the table graphs compared with this other alliance titan score. Yet my awesome alliance annihilated this alliance we faced, and won BIG! That being said, matchmaking alliances for AW based on just titan scores is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever saw!

This latest AW matchmaking changes, while not perfect, closet SG has gotten thus far!

You can have a perfect AW matchmaking algorithm, but means diddly-squat in how your alliance will perform. Everything from participation to making sacrifices for the overall good of the entire alliance. How you choose your heroes, how much you really understand their abilities and knowing your opponent’s. How good our game boards are, and so on and so fourth…! To those who showing comparison of big differences between titan scores, or AW points… And complaining how unreasonably matched they were… really doesn’t fly!

I’m guessing at 6 days old and your levels you also spent a good deal of cash … apples and oranges

Hazard, thank you for that info :revolving_hearts:. Question? It says that dark and holy heroes are weak against their own. So, let’s say we have a dark Titan. We have two reasonable holy heroes … play both of those, a decent healer and/or riposte … would you keep your strong dark hero as your final selection ?

That’s ignorance speaking! Firstly, go understand how the new AW matchmaking works. Then you come back and tell me how money has anything to-do with this? Irreverent (or as you say… apples and oranges) but since you wanted to go down this path… I bet that I’ve spent far less money than you or several people from your alliance that had.

Here’s something you’ve not considering with the 6-day alliance. I have been around long enough to educate myself in the ways of E&P. I’ve been building friendships, and leading along with my brother in an alliance of ours, and then I’ve moved on and helped managed other alliances.

Experience, knowledge, friendships… you just can’t buy in this game! These also the reasons why my alliance is so great…, because of these reasons, hence our achievements that you try to knock down to money…

Determination, knowing how to recruit and other variables that helps make a beautiful alliance!

… stop blaming cash, stop blaming AW matchmatching and start blaming your alliance leadership. Find a good strategist, help educate the alliance members, and get them all organized for alliance wars. Anything short from that then I can’t help it… I just don’t feel sorry for you and your alliance!

My apologies that I clearly hit a nerve … we have spent less than $100 between 26 members. I made an assumption that at 6 days old, most of your players are just barely able to participate in the war, let alone have leveled up heroes or a deep bench to play with. What I didn’t understand is that while your alliance is only 6 days old, your members are not. Hopefully you can see why I would assume $$$ spent. And we are trying to learn … we have only been in the game about 6 weeks and don’t have the experience behind us; however, no amount of experience will close the disparity with the alliance that opposed us. I am glad you are great! Keep up the greatness!

If you have two teams with similar sum of all 30 strongest heroes, but one team has the emphasis on their defence teams and the other is more spread out across roster depth, the team with the lesser roster depth will win.

It’s easy to inflate your 30 hero roster score by upgrading a load of heroes to 2nd tier or so. Makes them score a lot higher fast in power, but good luck against a 3k+ defence.

Meanwhile, the other team will be in some trouble with those 2,3 2,5k ish teams, but set those up against a 2.8 - 3k defence and they’ll still grab some points.

Our opponent scored a massive amount of 0 point attacks. Despite them having better roster depth.

In the old matchmaking, having a strong defence would often equal better titan strength, and possible match you up with opponents with greater roster depth. So roster depth was at the advantage in the old matchmaking.

In the new matchmaking, defence team strength is the advantage in matchmaking. It’s only counted for 1/6 of your score.

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Of course there are a lot of players out there that don’t know this tactic or only know it in theory. It takes a year of playing before you get to the point where you have the roster depth to pick from several maxed 4stars against titans.

Doubling and tripling against titans is a late game tactic. Many posters here are nowhere near that late game.

I agree with your summary. You’ve set out the exact argument I’ve been making against a Top 30 system for months now - that it incentivises developing a strong top team or two and very weak benches, and that mismatches are no less likely because of varying power distributions.

(In fairness, I think you probably explained it more clearly than I ever did.)

However, although we have been told by Petri that the power of players’ top 30 heroes is used for matching, we haven’t been told exactly how this is done. And as the now departed (and sadly missed) @Little_Infinity pointed out, it is entirely possible that heroes are being weighted differently in the calculation.

The defence team is more important than the 25 other heroes, so maybe the top team is being overweighted by a factor of 5 in the matching calculation, for example. That would seem like it might be a smart approach.

We don’t know exactly how it works - and because we can’t see our opponents’ benches, we will never know with certainty.

Edit: Here’s something interesting that appeared a minute or two ago.

"Thank you for the reports! I wanted to give you a status update.

We’ve been going through reports and the matchmaking code, but so far we haven’t been able to discover any bugs that would explain the seemingly unfair matches. Checking the results on our servers we can confirm that on average the differences in points of all the wars has decreased, meaning that on average the new matchmaking seems to be performing better than the old one.

We’re planning to implement the suggestion of giving the top 5 heroes more weight because they are most likely to be used in the defense team. Unfortunately this change requires a forced update, and we can’t do it on such a short notice. However, we are working on it.

We’ll also keep monitoring the situation over the upcoming wars."

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Our draw for the second war under new system is just as bad as the first one, but at least I understand why now and see a light at the end of a rather long tunnel.

Because we are a very young team (6 weeks old), we have a number of bench warmers waiting to be leveled up. I have had my team save their gems until they have enough to buy the 10 elemental heroes. The result is that we have a lot of heroes waiting for their turn to be recognized. The system counts those heroes in the calculation. I get it … we will lose badly for a while. But in 4-6 months…look out! :).

This brings me back to the possibility of some sort of tier system to allow for more competitive wars while people work at leveling heroes. In that system and using the current algorithm, within 4-5 wars, we would be more evenly matched. I don’t mind losing, we are competitive and will work hard to change that … just would like to level the playing field so we can win some too. :revolving_hearts::revolving_hearts:

Unfortunately, our alliance has many old time players, and they are quiting or just about to quit over lack of map 2, wars meaning nothing - although they do their bit as good as possible, and now the new system that is mismatching us badly. Latest match, their weakest defense is higher than the best teams of 13 of us, mostly newer players and those that do not wish to spend.

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Benches of stronger players are generally stronger as well, and troop strength goes all the way down the list. If you haven’t realised troops are where the real power is yet then WAKE UP!

Wow! That was loud! I’m awake now, thank heavens.

Of course they are. But if you’re matched against an opponent that has significantly higher defences than yours, you can be confident that their benches are weaker - that’s what a top 30 matching system does. (I hope you understand that by now.) So they’re not really stronger players, you see - it balances out. The alliance with strong defences and strong benches is being matched against opponents much tougher than you.

Of course, this bolsters the strong bench more than the weak bench, doesn’t it?

The best thing for the Devs to do would be to admit that “Alliance Wars”, like all other implementations of this terrible idea in these kinds of games, is a miserable failure. Trash it, apologize profusely and move on to finishing things that players want.

Like Season 2.

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Agreed. Having deeper benches would only be meaningful if they ran defense like offense- each hero was used once in defense. Then stronger benches would offset teams that were top heavy.

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