I think this would make it decidedly tougher to climb to the top.
I have 2628 trophies now and at Global Ranking #4576. Without heavy flasking or buying refills, there’s no way I’d ever get to the top spot again.
2 Likes
Yeah, I wasn’t advocating for the position, merely trying to get a clear statement of what we’re discussing. Frankly, I don’t have any issues with the current matching approach in raids.
2 Likes
At first I thought @GuessWho was just getting confused between local and global rankings, but yeah it does appear they’d rather raid ±300 in global rankings.
I like that when you’re up to ~2700 cups you can roll the top 5-10 players.
1 Like
Hi
yes the current 300 +/- actually “talking about the middle to lower levels as this wouldn’t really afect the elite players at much at all” but the current 300 +/- would scan a range somewhere in the 10’s of thousands where as if for example you used say a 1000 +/- global ranking scan then your matchmaking would be on much fairer scale/level oand you would end up with a far more refined matching system than the current 300 cups.
The other aspect of doing this also would be that cup droppers would also be very much discouraged as you wouldn’t get for example (and yes I am going to use TP as a round fingure here in my explanation) you would get players with say a 3900TP dropping down 300 or so cups so they could raid and win against lower cup levels at say around the 3300 mark thus also increasing the (and coming back to GR here) number of player matching against GR’ed players with 100 to 150k’s lower (example).
Using a matching scale of say 1000+/- GR would drastically change the matching system to keep on a fairer level of player strength. 1000+/- still gives you a scanning range of around 2000 players which will still constantly change as you win/lose but at least you will know that if you got raided in that range you got raided fairly and not just drasticingly (new word, lol) demolished by a player with a GR 50 to 150k stronger than you.
Same here! But I was suggesting different matching system because
- it’s never been suggested from what I have read
- quite a few in the lower levels (and rightly so) still complain about this as they come up against far far stronger opponents for example a mid range 4 star team coming up against a fully developed 5* team because that 5* player decided to drop his cups. Now the GR between these two teams would technically be around the 150k plus difference between the 2 (round figures).
With the amount of members SG is attracting and constantly growing looking at a much more refined matching system will eventually be needed even if say the GR was set at around 1500/2000 +/- that’s still a scan of 3000/4000 players within a more even playing field and far better than an unfair cup range of 50/150k Plus scale it is currently at.
So how would a global ranking number be determined?
If(big IF apparently) current global ranking is based on cup counts and you dont want raid matching based on cups then wouldn’t global ranking have to be configured differently? Team power? Player level? Indivdiual war score(could eliminate cup droppin almost completely)?
Map progress? Cumulative titan damage?
1 Like
If I understand your question correctly.
The way the cups and GR number would not change one bit from it’s current format as there is nothing wrong with it as it is now.
What would change is in the background RNG’s matching system where it currently uses a variant of 300+/- cups atm, that would be changed to using a GR variant of say for example 1000+/- instead of cups.
So techincally the frontend player will never have a change in what they see figure wise either in cups or GR as this all implemented in the background matching system.
I hope I understood and answered your question correctly.
1 Like
So IF global ranking is based on cups then the new matching system would still match based on cups?
Matching a player within 1k count of current global ranking is still technically matching based on cups IF global ranking is based on cups(really wish a developer would confirm/deny that global ranking is based on cups)
I know this circles back to last night’s circle but that’s just what keeps jumping out at me
I don’t think there’s a way to fool proof prove that there aren’t 1k players already within an individual 300 cup count outside of the top 100
Plus i can still change my defense team and cup drop therefore drop my global ranking as well
I’m not against the idea of better matches within the raid system. Always want what’s good for the game. Just the way you’ve worded it so far is just a round about way of changing the system cosmetically without changing it mechanically
NO not really. It shouldn’t change anything except the way the devs refine the matching variant data in there program changing it from determining cups to GR score.
The rest wouldn’t need to be affected in any way at all.
An RNG works on how you program it to work by setting it up with parameters & variants which in this case it is told to use cups. Change that to telling it to read/use GR numbers instead.
All in the background changing nothing else.
1 Like
I’d be very curious to see how this would affect different slices of the game population. There’s something like 2 million players. The spread around player rank 1,267,942 is going to be a very tight cup range, and so almost always going to give moderately tough challenges—no easy raids against a team 200 cups below you. In my case, raiding down as far as 1000 below me won’t change things much—that’s already about +/- 1,000.
Tightening the cup range is a two-edged sword: you’ll get rid of the hard mateches whee you can earn a lot of cups, and you’ll get rid of the easy matches that help fill the heroes chest quickly.
1 Like
Ok I’m caught up now. So basically we’re just tightening the margins which in turn makes it that much harder to find matches giving players less choices for opponents and making it harder to climb raid arenas and ranks?
Lets see if I understood this discussion correctely.
Global ranking is based on cups.
If 2 players have the same cups they have the same global ranking.
This means.
2000 cups can include a variable amount of players with the same global ranking but a global ranking will always lead to ONE cup number.
This would mean the global ranking has jumps. ( packs of Players with same Cup number and same global ranking. )
Example no semblance to reality:
Cup number 2000 = global ranking 250000 to 265000
Cup number 2001 = global ranking 265001 to 275000.
@GuessWho proposes to pair with global ranking for finer scaling.
Problem: You need special criteria to decide which half of the global ranking pack you use if the scale goes right through the middle of a pack.
Might be the same mechanism they use it the same happens with equal cup packs.
Right now I cant grasp the consequences of such a Change but it is Food for thoughts. 
1 Like
YES and NO!
Yes you could say that if you where to drop the cup range from say 300 to (big drop here for example sake) to say 50 cups, even though this will decrease the matching range drastically your still left with a GR number range/scan (example) of say 10 to 30k’s within that 30+/- cup matching. Yes that is another way of doing it but this 10 to 30k at one point can also become 30 to 70k as SG grows in numbers bringing you back round to creating the same issues of such a great difference in team strength.
NO! Where as if GR number was used (not affecting how cups are calculated thus never changing how cups are won/lost) but if GR was used as the matching vairant at say (sticking with current discused numbers here) at say 1000+/- this would always be a fair matching systen no matter how many members SG had weather it be 10m or 1B the matching would always be set the same way.
But I hear what your saying here about the cups as currently we are playing for a cup amount which is based on the difference between the two opponents team strength devided by the amount of cups each player already has prior to that battle. Technically in the background this would be derived/programmed as a percentage (%) differance between the 2 players and not actual numbers/figures.
This in it’s self using the GR system would have to change thus not changing the cup % amount won or lost.
What would in fact actually change is 2 things which are both nothing more than a imaginary material figure seen by the naked eye but having said SG could always change that cup % to a greater value to coincide with the GR matching system. These differences would be
- The amount of cups actually won!
As we currently see ourselves winning say 30 to 50 cups changing the RNG to reading GR variants at it’s current % rate would see a drop in the actual number of cups you won or lost thus really never actually affecting anything other than the visual affect of how many cups you won/lost.
Sounds confusing I know, doesn’t it,lol - Although this would not affect the game play it world mean that instead of winning say 30 to 50 cups in a single challenge you would see it more like 5 or 10 unless SG changed/increased the % cup win/loss amount to bring it back up closer ot it’s current figures.
Haveing said that it would also mean that cups become nothing more than a material aspect of the game displaying how well you are doing as a player within this game in which it would then become nothing more than an actual reward system for having done (won/lost) in raid battles.
But having said that this reward (cups) would then be a real indication of having climbed the leaderboard ladder as a true tatcical player having battled against evenly matched opponents rather than the current where most climb the ladder becaus ethey can abuse (figure of speech only for lack of a better word right now) abuse the system by being matched with far weaker opponents.
So yes there is a difference there but YES this is also a background programming numbers game which can be worked out and amended.
I apologie if all this sounds confusing as actually writing all this down can sound that way where as saying it can be explained in greater detail thus probably make more sense.
Cheers
1 Like
Hmm well i guess it would give us a more accurate rank system and less rewards and a bigger gap in ranks between 2 year players and 6 month players. Sounds like a system geared towards keeping the bottom on bottom and the top on top which i guess is the whole point of a ranking system based on strength rather than performance
If we have a smaller gap of opponents to face, then we have smaller leaps in the rank system, which after shaking itself out would keep the top 100 that much higher than the other 4,999,900 players
So no more screenshots of level 25 f2p johnny doe gettin excited and posting a top 100 sceeenshot to the forum or his friends
Now he would be happy just cracking the top 4million
Raid arenas would probly be altered as well. Either harder to achieve due to smaller cup gains or changed to global rank ranges which would be just as hard to climb unless astronomically huge
Am i still following?
Totally hear you but the question at hand here is the fairness of matchups and how fair they are which as stated before may afftect more the mid to lower levels rather than the elite top players. Now I have just done a few rerolls and without having to go through doing screenshots for all of these your just going to have to take my word that what I am going to write is the honest truth as they came up. This is based of cause on my cup level which is 2036 ATM with a GR of 201090 (not that it matters but) using 5 unleveled 4* heros.
Now the purpose of this example id to show the differences in the types of teams that a single player may come up against with their cup amount thus also displaying the types of teams that you are up against. (TP having nothing to do with anything here)
Cups ---- Global rank No ---- Opponent () strength ----Fly/Maxed Y/N
2257 ---- 85661 ---- 5x5 ---- Y
1807 ----- 350182 -----3&4* ---- N
2232 -----94554 -----5x5* ---- N
2121 ------ 146214 -----4&5* ----Y
2075 -----174635 ---- 4&5* ----- Y
2280 ----78710 ---- 5x5* ----- Y
2187 ----112586 ----4&5* ---- Y
2158 ----125933 ----4&5* ----- Y
2308 ----- 70642 ----5x5* ---- Y
2238 ---- 92295 ----- 5x5* ----- Y
2173 -----119029 -----4&5* ------ Y
So these are in the order thye where rolled in. Using myself as this example but it does underline what these unfair claims others are talking about and wwhy they feel they are being unfairly matched.
I have an unleveled 4* team and the greater percentage of opponents I come up against are mostly all fully leveled 4 and 5* teams with the odd couple of exceptions. Nothing to do with weather I would take these guys on because i do so please don’t misunderstand that.
But this is to show the differences in Global ranking Scores and as you can see there is a very great difference with most of these players I would say being cup droppers thus they are being brought up against far weaker teams that pretty much no chance what so ever especially against all those fully maxed 5* teams not to say you not get lucky every now and then (I do). But this is about what most consider unfair and why they complain about it here.
Now change this to a GR matching system and look at the vast difference in opponents you would come up against. I asure you that if GR was used at say a 1000+/- variant no amount of cup dropping would bring on an opponet with a GR of 100 thousand plus K’s differenace against your GR of (in this case mine) 201090 thus keeping the matching system a far more fairer playing field.
WRONG! (politely speaking)
The current system is what does that because the cap is so far apart allowing the top level players to completely squash much lower leveled players distroying and holting there attempts are trying to climb the ladder.
Where as if the gap was decreased then every player would have a much fairer chance at climbing the ladder be it free or paid because you be climbing that ladder competing within a relm more to your own strength thus then relying on skill to beat them to move above them. In fact that ladder would actually decrease in speed as to how fast you climb it and as you climb that ladder you come up against srtonger opponents but still within your levels capabilities without the affects of being totally squashed by opponents way above your own pay grade.
Not at all! the only gain for the top players is (any top player) to drop cups if for the resources and to stop them from getting much higher thus making them think they need to spend more money to reach greatness. No other reason and thus these current caps do only that. It’s even been stated above earlier that one of these players stays on almost 24/7 just for that reason alone.
This is what makes the current system unfair and what keeps the current top elite players on top without the fear of being taken over by a far more skilled player. But if it was refined then this would drastically change that and make the eliet players actually work for their position (no offense guys,lol) of being on top rather than being there because they can simply squash far/much lower leveled players off which results in more of a power play than having any skill at all.
We should keep the raiding system exactly the way it is. Matching based on cups is the great idea behind this game. I mean, come on! I much more enjoy raiding against Guin, GM, Alasie or Zeline (which really present a challenge) than against Skittleskull, Li Xiu, Scarlet or Little John (which really don’t)… As I need a really good board to defeat the first ones, I also need a really bad board to loose to the last ones. Matching based on team power would condemn me to always fight the last ones, and raiding would become dull…
1 Like
Team power has never been mentioned here and is not in question nor is it a factor in our discussions.
Team power is in the thread title, hence some confusion.
2 Likes
I was ranked #67 using only 4* heros so idk how you dont see where weaker players can crack the top 100
Plenty of players that aren’t regularly in top 100, make the top 100. Plenty of players that should stay in the top 100 get knocked out of the top 100.
Now I’ve bowed on the other debates. But these are facts lol. I’ve witnessed it, done it, and still see it happen all the time. Current cup system is pretty easy to climb with the right strategies, lucky boards, choices of opponents, and at least 3 maxed 4* in each color or even 1 maxed 4* in each color with 3 at others at 3/60 in each color.
Players punch up above their levels daily. Do they get knocked down? Yes but so does everyone. That’s why the current system works
2 Likes