Match raid adversaries based on Team Power (not cup tier)

I would prefer that SG create incentives for winning cups rather than penalizing players for doing what’s in their best interest at the time (cup dropping to get more food).

All you cup droppers out there: what would it take for you to try winning cups again?!?

That’s an inventive idea that I very much dislike. It introduces an incentive to attack teams with high hit points, when we want an incentive to attack teams with high trophies. You’ve made filling the chest proportional to hit points killed - I think it should be proportional to trophies killed.

You could use the same idea but substitute points generated per trophies killed, of course, though you’d still need to redesign tiers and chests. And that’s still a pain.

True, but it should discourage it. Would players still drop a few hundred cups if by so doing it would take nine flags to fill their chest instead of six? (Or six flags instead of four?) Dunno.

How about if they lost 50% of their loot and an ascension roll? To some extent this is what tiers already attempt to achieve, with limited success.

I don’t love the idea of not being able to drop back to previous tiers. It would prevent some egregious cup dropping, which would be good, but would be brutal on edge cases - discouraging some from ever crossing the threshold and burning those who did so due to an unexpected (and unmonitored) run of luck. Moreover, it wouldn’t limit dropping within tiers.

No easy solutions.

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I based the idea on the current system for war points. I had considered using power, but power is a bad measure.

Elo’s math already has an incentive to attack high trophy teams, your trophies go up. What F2P MMOs need is an incentive not to tank.

By treating all Heros and Monsters the same, it encourages farming 8-7 to fill the chest, tanking in raids to fill the chest. Personally I would like a system that rewards a) setting your best defense team, b) attacking hard defense teams, and c) finishing the World map.

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I agree that we need an incentive not to tank: I think your proposed system only introduces an incentive to attack high hit point teams. I grant that it would probably be an improvement on the current system, but I don’t like conflating hit points with player strength - trophies are supposed to measure player strength; hit points certainly do not.

I’d quibble with your assertion that Elo systems already provide an incentive to attack high trophy teams, to increase your trophy total. This is true only insofar as there is an incentive to increase your trophy total - the lack of such an incentive (the incentives to do the opposite, in fact) is precisely the problem we need to address.

We’re pretty much on the same page when it comes to objectives, though. I think the system should reward making your defence as tough as possible, attacking players as far above you on the totem pole as possible, and finishing the map.

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Our alliance is quite new and only has a few members and we are fine with that. However, 4 of our members have been raided so much lately, that we will be loosing them I believe. The cups, the team power, or whatever it is that the algorithm determines to be the reasons behind how a player is raided is flawed. An alliance member has a team power of 1345 and has been raided by teams with powers exceeding 2800 and occasionally 3000. They are loosing more iron and meat than they can produce in one day to the 8 or more raids they are receiving in the same amount of time. All this since the last two updates. They have been trying to save iron to upgrade a stronghold from 12 to 13 for 4 days now. And they are farther away from doing it than when they started. This example is only one of the four members that have been raided. We have three others going through similar problems.

You can only lose what’s in your watchtower to someone raiding you.
It is not possible to lose any resources from your warehouses, so it’s not possible to get set back in resources because of raiding. :slight_smile:

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at lower levels like that, your primary resources from your stronghold should come from mines and farms. That will exceed your watchtower resources.

additionally, you should be able to find juicy raid targets as well.

There’s no possible way you could be “farther” from building - it doesn’t take iron from your storage, just from your watchtower.

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They have been unable to bank any on the production from their watchtower. Their watchtower is producing 3045 iron and they just lost 3400 in the last raid. Their iron mines are the only place they are getting iron then. Don’t know though. I will have them report the issue to the bug board.

Yes they might lose most of the production of their tower. That sucks true but it’s not even half of the income, do remember that you also gain iron from map and from won raids.
I would not look at the amounts lost as they can be iffy, but it should not be possible to lose any iron FROM WAREHOUSES because of raids. If this does really happen, I think we are going to need screenshots as proof. Or a support ticket so people at small giant can check the logs :slight_smile:

if they stay online, they can collect the iron. Being raided in the watchtower isn’t a bug, it’s working as designed.

Totally agree. I got cleaned up by teams that were 500-800 power higher than my team with them taking 40+ trophies off me because they had 200 - 300 trophies less than me. How is that fair?

I disagree.
Surely you don’t think you are limited to the first opponent tha game gives you? There is this little reroll button available. In general, team power and trophy amount are compatible, though there are exceptions of course.

What frustrates me about it is if I am looking for a match that will give me a small amount of trophies if I win and large deficit if I lose (opponent with less cups, regardless of team power), it will often give me 10 rerolls the opposite to what I am looking for. How about a bit more consistency to the randomness here?!

And for whoever suggested to recude the amount of food/iron generated by the watchtower, NO! Raiding is limited to what accumulated here and the main stash is safe. I wouldn’t have it any other way.

As for the uselessness of the trophies themselves, if the developers made them a little more useful and announced it, there would be a lot of people aiming for high trophy amounts. Such as the quantity of trophys improving the odds of two things - 5* heros from the summon portal and high level ascension materials from wanted chests, titan loot etc (both which are highly sought after but have very low odds).

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I currently only attack opponents that yield 45+ trophies. My team varies from 3400-3500ish depending on opponent. Occasionally I will revenge someone that offers less if the team is weak enough.

When I was lower level, I didn’t care about trophies. I would just attack ones with the most loot, as I was always low on food, or easy ones to fill the wanted chest.

Once they added raid tiers & loot bonuses for such, I started keeping my trophies up. The reward doesn’t really seem to be worth it, though. RNG/low % as usual.

Some good ideas have been proposed here.

I think something similar to Clash of Clans might help, in addition to other ideas.
You wouldn’t drop a tier unless you lost 100(?) trophies below the threshold.

Add to that, a constant (non-random), good loot bonus per tier, similar to Boom Beach - maybe gems… 1 / 3 / 5 / 7, etc

I have been following this for a while. A lot of points have been made for and against the idea.

My problems with matching based on team power as opposed to trophies are the following 3.
1 Team power is not absolute when it comes to measuring team capability. I run a defense team less powerful than my raid team because the raid team needs different special attacks than does the defense team. Boards are still a factor in the game and, regardless of team power, you still can get amazing luck, on both attack and defense.

2 The amount of money some people already pay is insane and having a good team that you buy still doesn’t mean you know how to use it.

3 As has been mentioned there is a reroll button, but that button costs the attacker food every time they press it, by extension if someone chooses to attack lower or higher power teams they have the option to do both. Some teams particularly at the early 3k range are still only making do with what the player has. Balancing solely on team power limits options and harms the ability of players to experiment with new teams.

TL DR version. Matching solely based on team power limits options, and all players regardless if they are level 50, 35 (such as myself) or 15 all need to have avenues to learn to make do with what they have.

One final note is that loot tiering has made me more enthusiastic about learning how to raid than not. I realize this isn’t a universal, but it does IMO encourage players who are interested in really learning the game to do so and as I said before wiping out a trophy based system in exchange for team power does not appear to help solve the issue as a whole.

It was not fair for attack time for hero when the hero attack one time for many combo in one turn. But the enemy were attack many time for one turn (not combo) and sometime the enemy was able to attack hero withabilities when the mana not full and anytime to jump attack when was not turn.

How is this a fair match up??

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I think a better question is, what should the handicap be for this fight?

I think you deserve 55/5 for this fight.

I’ll bet if Engineer rolled & got you to fight, the odds would be 2/58 or something like that–the house always wins.

That’s one of the reasons people quit playing this game–they find another game that gives better odds.

I never did actually try to win cups because i dislike raiding. It would take a lot for me to try gaining cups and going through the headache of fighting opponents so much stronger than myself (in both skill and power).

Guarenteed ascension rewards is just about the only thing. I’d honestly rather see the hero chest replaced by something else; maybe a boss or quest completion chest that is doable within 8 hours (raid energy refills 1 every hour and it take eight raid wins to fill the chest). The monster hunting part of the game I like; the player hunting part not so much.

We could even have tiered boss/quest chest; the higher level we kill/win, the higher tier the loot will be. Now THAT I could get behind and then I’d only raid to practice for events and to see what my heroes can really do. And maybe for that extra bit of ham/iron i need for a level-up.

Ediit to add: the reasos I cup drop are to fill the hero chest within a reasonable time and to prevent myself from losing a ludicruous amount of resources from being raided.

There was a time I lost over TWO HOURS of food gain from one raid. What’s the point of having and leveling the watchtower if all my resources get taken out of it? SG needs to fix this problem as well, since i frequently see people saying “don’t level your watchtower or you’ll get overraided!” Doesn’t that mean there’s an issue?

Here’s a crazy idea for ya’s.

Why not when entering the raid arena have a popup box which ssks you yo check a box/option which says something like (search opponents using power scores or cups amounts) thisvway you have an option and can’t complain about it being right or wrong.

Having said that; I feel that no matter how you do it there will always be some amount of unequal fairness within the system.

Lets make it really interesting and fight for one another’s heros instead. Have a extra set of boxes or even a single box called prize and each defense team must have a hero placed in the prize box. No hero in the prize box no being chosen to battle in raids. Having a set of 5 prize boxes would allow you to be in at least 5 raids. Outside of having a prize box would be to have a small check box underneath the existing individual team boxes meaning when checked that hero is chosen to be offered as a prize and if more than one the game chooses one of them randomly.

Who cares about cups honestly, they mean nothing and are worthless and most of all without rewards, at least raids would really have in interesting aspect to them.

The other option is the same