[MASTER] - Is the rare Quest cancelled for this week?

General Discussion
61

Given the low rate of drops (mats and summons), if the actual game percentage changed today, how long would it take you to reach some standard of reasonable certainty that it had? Months? Years? (Less time, presumably, if you have a large data-collection community, all equally diligent, and of course, also somewhat less time depending on your raw rate of summons/drops, e.g. money spent on summoning and number of high-star titans killed, high rankings achieved in tourneys, events, etc.)

Supplemental: at what point is it illuminating to undertake a records-keeping project rivaling filing real-world taxes? —I suppose in part that could depend on what you are testing?

I’d guess that over enough players, SG would have to legally be able to show (if regulated or sued) that its posted odds hold to some level of statistical significance over the population of players. But if an even an individual who kept exacting records showed that they personally were on the south end of expected values, when does that actually argue “something is wrong with the odds” vs “well, someone has to be on the low end of the bell curve”?

That’s an issue to me, less that there is necessarily some “grand RNG-twisting conspiracy”, and more that it would seem really easy to dismiss any argument to the contrary even of any statistically significant result as “bell curves have outliers.”

(I’m not arguing that purely anecdotal personal experience is better — especially when it comes to low probabilities — but that there’s going to be confirmation bias in any kind of low-probability, potentially-high-payoff environment.)

If I had to guess, it’s possibly because LB2 may well act as a difference multiplier. If there is little difference between a defending team and your ability/resources/etc to attack that team, then LB2’s add-on effect might seem pretty incremental and not that significant.

On the other hand, an already-wider gap might be multiplied to a significantly wider one.

From my own experience, most of my attack strength generally comes from, frankly, snipers (and occasionally trying to set off a Ludwig Bomb by desperately gathering berjillions of purple tiles before Ludwig and/or whoever he’s meant to power up are mana-cut/buff-blocked/silenced/otherwise just eviscerated) who tend to need a lot of tactical shenanigans and a healthy dollop of luck to compete against “now you all just lose”-type heroes.

Er, needed that before LB2. Snipers can win by knocking out keystone enemies (or even ones just about to fire) in time. When snipers can’t knock out key heroes and disrupt their combos from rolling, a “edge of your seat, whittle away the enemy knock-down-dragout” fight can very quickly instead become “rocks fall, everyone dies.”

Put another way, if your potential margin for victory is wide enough, narrowing it a little might not be that noticeable. If your potential margin for victory was very narrow to begin with, though…

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62

Where is todays farholme?

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63

OMG every week the same question. @Dudeious.Maximus make your split merge magic.

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64

My guess: Next week. :wink:

65

What no rare quest this week? I think I’ll find a new app to spend my trust fund at

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66

Maybe we wouldn’t need the same question if there wasn’t the problem of Rare quests being “regular-but-not-regular.”

Maybe we should keep asking the same question if it would, oh, I dunno, create increasing pressure for SG to get off the tired excuse of six-year-old “precedent” and just fix Rare quests.

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67

It isn’t a problem. It’s only a “problem” for those who choose to not accept that it’s not a quest with set spawn timeframe.

Precedents set how something works and doesn’t indicate that there is anything broken to “fix”. It’s working as intended and there is plenty of info on it in the forum. People just don’t know how to use the Search option afforded by the forum. Don’t forget that the quests used to be much rarer than they are now.

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Why should we accept that it doesn’t have a set timeframe, when it seems to have a very nearly constant timeframe right up until “ruh-roh, it’s almost time for a Challenge Event”? (Constant enough that the forum-made calendars include the Rare as a more-or-less-constant event, with a “plus or minus a bit” caveat.)

It would be, presumably, very easy to just make it an actual regular “starts at Monday at XX:XX UTC” event — regardless.

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Things change.

Even if one admits it was once — six years ago, with many fewer quests around and a significantly slower pace of hero release — a good idea to prevent Rare and Challenge events from colliding (and this is debatable), the game has moved on since the precedent was seized upon.

Whom does it benefit to keep the Rare pseudorandom (and more to the point, vanishing during Challenge weeks)?

Frankly, it comes off as a chintzy attempt to sell players one more ascension item behind a facade of “bUt tHe pLaYeRs aSkEd fOr tHiS” — and the game is not the same game it once was.

Notably, the release rate of heroes. I’m not even calling for Rare quests to be increased at a rate proportional to hero release rate, just to make them actually reliable and not skipping weeks.

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69

The problem is more that players don’t read the calendar correctly for the part of plus or minus X days and expect it to show on a set day. SG have never (unless I’ve missed something) placed it on their official calendar as due to appear. With the number of reasonable things to complain about I don’t think this is really where to pitch the flagpole.

It normally appears after some of the regular quests expire and there was discussion a (few/couple/ one?) year ago about them not placing it during quest weeks, which they were involved in. The reason they don’t is because they were aware a lot of players devote all their w.e to challenge event etc and didn’t want to interfere on players having to compromise between going for score or seeking the free mats. It was something that was put in at the beginning of the game when the calendar was less cramped and there were far less places mats could be obtained from by RNG unlike now where there are more possibilities to get them. They could probably change it now, but in all honesty I’d imagine if they did we’d quite quickly have someone on complaining that they had to use energy on the rare quest so didn’t have enough to advance their scores for the next tier :person_shrugging:

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70

eyetwitch

Someone who has enough WE flasks to grind and regrind Challenge levels over and over enough to get a desired ranking…

…but not ~one WE (nor the willingness to use freely-regenerated WE) to finish the Rare quest?

never mind that if the Rare quest started on Monday, it would be quite easy for most players to finish it well before the Challenge ever started

Is this the dominant demographic? Should it be?

My main complaint isn’t that the Rare quest isn’t exactly at the same time every week.

My main complaint is that “oh there’s a Challenge event this week” is pretty arguably a poor excuse to have one fewer 4* ascension item.

It would be easy to ensure (say, with an actual regular schedule) minimal-to-zero overlap between Rare and Challenge, and it’s not like overlap between OTHER quests stops SG.

…

and as for “there’s nothing broken to fix,” I guess I’d wonder why the Big Imbalance Update is giving out free stat upgrades to recent heroes, while asking players to purchase or lottery their way into stat upgrades for older ones.

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I agree it would be a crazy complaint, but those people do exist (and they are most likely to be in the bracket on the cusp of just silver token, those at the very top spots have huge numbers of flasks they don’t care) Along with those who want to spend every w.e possible to hunt the mob chest in the hope of the one extra pull that might not be a beast of berden this time round. It would not be inconceivable that as soon as the change was in place there would be complaints (same as when chance to get trainers came in instead of S1 3star garbage).

As far as the stat stuff I’m very much being wait and see

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72

Because people threw tantrums and complained that they didn’t have enough WE for both the rare quest and the challenge event years ago. They can’t auto farm all events, they have to use battle items to complete stages, there are too many flags/too many stages, and the list goes on about the complaints.

They’re not “very nearly constant” when they can spawn anywhere between a Sunday and a Wednesday while sharing quest slots with other quests.

People complained back then and are complaining now. They’re always going to complain about the most mundane of things no matter what they’re given.

And they have. Instead of taking 10+ days for them while skipping the week the challenge events are happening in, they’re now on 9day or less spawn timers while skipping challenge event weeks.

See what I mean about the complaining? Olive branch - yet people still complain as they always will, no matter what.

Quests that rare ones share a slot with and rotate with have always been there for year and years. There are plenty of precedents that have been there for longer than any of us have been alive. They don’t all change nor do they have to in order to appease a few.

In the nearly 4 years of playing, I’ve never outright purchased a 4* mat and I’ve gotten plenty from all sources to level my heroes. And I spend more than you do. So, not everything is about rate of hero releases. If this isn’t it, there will be something else to complain about and tie to the rate of released heroes (BTW I’m not disagreeing the heroes are released at a stupidly fast clip, this just isn’t an issue here IMO).

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73

I’ve addressed the issue again to the staff in the beta, that they remove the restriction that a rare quest cannot spawn during challange event.
There has been a poll over a year ago where the majority of the players was against keeping the restriction.
We only can prey that they finally fix this issue :face_with_diagonal_mouth:

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74

I understand it’s not canceled, but i desperately want this, I need the tome of tactics more than anything

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75

aaand its online, go get your tome

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76

Finally, Snefaru is ascended, now to wait a week or 2 to finally max him haha

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77

Yes, it’s officially cancelled, no longer available.

78

So you are incredibly lucky or only have 2 5* heroes. But you are only talking about your experience, no one elses.

79

I don’t understand this logic.

Firstly, unless the Rare event spawns on Wednesday (which hardly, if ever, seems to happen) it’s generally not that hard to complete the Rare before the Challenge even starts; then one thing doesn’t impact the other thing at all.

Secondly, for folks who aren’t interested in significantly competing in the Challenge by replaying and rereplaying and rererererererereplaying levels ad nauseum, I would say, at least from my own experience, that there seems to be plenty of time and WE to finish even a Challenge event and a Rare event that were to start simultaneously — without using WE flasks at all.

Thirdly, for folks who do want to heavily invest WE in the Challenge event: are they willing to spend potentially dozens or more WE flasks to have a chance at a higher ranking, but not willing to spend… one… on the Rare on the chance that it spawns at basically the same time as the Challenge? Really?

If this — this — is the actual motivation and the primary reason that impacts everyone for such a specific concern of presumably small subset of players, the simple solution isn’t “take the Rare away this week altogether,” it’s, as aforementioned, to make sure the Rare simply spawns before the Challenge, which is what I have proposed, which would be easy to do as a regular policy, and which has actually happened this week as it turns out.

And then everyone wins.

Why should everyone lose a Rare one week so that a few “I want to blow tons of WE but never on Rare” folks get their way, when everyone can be happier?

The primary problem - at least I see it and as I’ve said - isn’t “oh no the Rares aren’t on a clockwork schedule so I’m mad”…

it’s that skipping Challenge weeks seems incoherent and unnecessary (as I have just explained) and could be easily fixed by making the Rares be on a steady schedule.

Of course people are still unhappy if the underlying issue has been ignored! It can feel really tiresome to explain reasons and offer a hopefully feasible, even easy solution and feel dismissed with “whatever, people will always complain.”

SO WHAT.

I’m not proposing magical solutions that will please 100% of everybody, of course. But it would be (if even in a small way) pretty arguably better for a lot of players.

Why should we “let the perfect be the enemy of the good”? Why should we let it be an excuse to avoid simple beneficial change?

Honestly, I really don’t see the net benefit to most players of “fewer in-game-earnable ascension items,” For the vast majority of us, a Tome of Tactics (say) is arguably better than what we’ll get out of the rankings loot, and what I have been proposing will still let the Challenge chasers get both.

I feel like the “few” being appeased here are those appeased by “let’s keep things the same.” (Which sounds, really, again like a stingy sales model for “faster hero release rate and an excuse to not have a steady-if-painfully-slow supply of ascension items.”)

I’m making this argument generally. Personally, I have possibly more ascension items than I may ever use, depending on whether my current atrocious 5*-summoning rate ever improves.

But yeah, an argument like “I’ve got mine so I don’t care if anyone else needs ascension materials” can come off as callous, really.

I’m not talking about being freakin’ Santa Claus here with mats, just not being Scrooge every time a Challenge rolls around (much less the potential for considering using this “precedent” to start removing Rare quests during other events too).

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80

Not quite cancelled, you can buy the Rare Quest lure to give you a 5% chance to have it appear in a given week.

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